DA and the MA

[Howitzer]

I have a question to ask because I guess I'm just not understanding this completely.

The last few nights I've gone into the DA to do a little fighting, and it seems that everyone is always in spitVs, and the fights always play out about the same.  There is SOOO much emphasis put on the merge that I would venture to say that 90% of the fights are won or lost on the merge.  Had some pretty good fights though.

I guess my question is: How exactly does learning this way translate into MA fighting?  The vast number of BnZ guys in the MA make this fighting almost impossible.  Seems like if I win a merge in the MA the other guy sees he's beat and goes nose down to run away.  So I've started not making such tight turns to keep my E up, but in the DA if I fly this way I'm toast.  Half the time in the MA I have to fly lower and actually give up my six in order just to be engaged.  Normally I try for an overshoot just to get a shot off before they run away.  

Just seems like the two places are greatly different and since I only have about an hour of flying time a night, I don't have time to learn both.  Anyone else feel this way?

[Balsy]

Bingo Howitzer.

I feel the same way, if you fight like the DA in the MA, you get whacked by some cherry picker.  I often give up my tail in the MA just to get somebody to engage, and then pray they dont extend when I make them miss.  I think it just goes to show the fighting online is NOTHING like it is/was in RL.

I mean, who the heck in RL would try a rope maneuver...? I do it all the time in the MA/DA.

In the DA its Merge, than low and slow fights to the deck.  I really enjoy this type of fighting, but is a rare commodity now in the MA.

Hopefully TOD is the answer, where living = rank etc... and it makes the fights more realistic.

Balsy

[Nuke33]

OR, you could fly in the Special Events Arena.. If anything in this game gets anywhere close to how it actually was, thats the place to be.

[Sikboy]

Hey Nuke! I was just thinking about that...



-Sik

[Nuke33]

Right on Sik.. Hey I should send you a few screenies of the coral sea event.. I got a couple of really good ones.. Let me know your e-mail if you'd care to check them out..

[Schutt]

What i understand in real live most encounters were won where the other guy didnt eaven see you coming, which for me more or less translates to alt monkeying and bnz one slash attacks.

Whoever manages to engage the other guys from above attacks. If your lower you try to draw the enemy away from their planned mission and down and radio for help.

At least thats how i understand it. The stall fights rarely happend, as well as few people would fight at treetop hight. The real situation would just be to boring as a simulation. So neither DA nor MA are in any way like reality. Probably most real you can get is flying fighters in MA, take off from a save base, climb to 25k, bounce some bombers or unsuspecting fighters and RTB. That would mean no dogfights, no co-e engagement and one attack every hour.

I have no idea if the 2 fold fuel burn in the MA is really necessary, but i find it verry desturbing if you want to fly real like, once climbed to 25k the remaining fuel is pretty limiting.

Balsy, if you want merges with the enemy not running ask me where i am and kill me... i might be dragging out the fight a bit to disengage and reengage, but i wont run from one con. But then im probably shot down so fast that its not worth the trouble for you.

[mechanic]

I agree Howi, and i get very frustrated when spit5 fights end 3 seconds after they start.........with a 'second-nose-to-nose-HO shot'.



most spit 5 fights in DA:  merge-HO-rinse-repeat.


boring.



when you fight a really good stick you know you got beat fair because they will avoid that HO shot and work the angles to humble you from above, behind or the sides.

just try fighting Sniper....there are many good sticks but Sniper is one of the frequant DA users and he flies the spit5 like a dream.


I find the best thing to do in the DA is take just one friend and go find an empty field. pick random plane match-ups (typing   '.plane #' works well ) and see how the fight goes.


I have spent many an hour fighting friends in the DA and it only improves my limited box of tricks each time i go.


some of the guys who will school you, but also give you a very good fight in the DA if you ask them to go...and they dont care about beating you, they just want fun fights...

redd
sniper
phish/bovidea
any of the BKs
XtremeJ
Despair
any of 71sqn
shane
wildthng
balsy (although he too damn good in hogs/f6f to bother fighting )

there are many many more, and i'm sorry if i forgot to put ya down and you fight DA often.





but then again, theres an exlusive list i find that fight MA only but still i enjoy coming acrros them very much.

like..

Sekiji
Yonoi
jozepi
the Braunco Mustangs (i know some will disagree)
Kiss My havoc
SEs
devious
thrila..
....
....

the list could go on and on...


then there is the good fights to be found in the CT....





I geuss that you just have to search a little in each arena to find where the true players are fighting, but when you find a good fight, dont waste it

[Dead Man Flying]

I find that I use the skills obtained in the DA all the time in the MA.  The difference is that the MA is a more robust environment than the DA.  You can succeed very well in the MA without doing well in the DA.  However, I find that those who do very well in the DA almost always do well in the MA also.

Seriously, I don't get it when people say that the DA does not translate into the MA.  It does, or at least it can.  Even when flying a Tempest, I find I'm constantly using principles learned from countless duels over the years.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Howitzer


I guess my question is: How exactly does learning this way translate into MA fighting?  

Go into the DA and duel over and over and over again for a few days and when you go back to the MA you'll feel like a samurai.

It does translate in the fact that your gunnery will improve, you'll be better able to ride planes on the edge, and you'll gain a healthy respect for why exactly "furballers" do what they do - a close tight fight is perhaps the most exhilirating thing you can get out of this game.

And yes, many times you'll only find SpitV fights, but you can translate any manuever or idea you learn to do in a Spit to pretty much any other plane.

It's really a blast.

[HavocTM]

My DA Strategy... take off heading the wrong way and run like hell.

They can't kill you if they can't catch you!

[Howitzer]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I find that I use the skills obtained in the DA all the time in the MA.  The difference is that the MA is a more robust environment than the DA.  You can succeed very well in the MA without doing well in the DA.  However, I find that those who do very well in the DA almost always do well in the MA also.

Seriously, I don't get it when people say that the DA does not translate into the MA.  It does, or at least it can.  Even when flying a Tempest, I find I'm constantly using principles learned from countless duels over the years.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

Maybe to clarify...  I'm not looking for realism, I can't fly a real plane nor do I have the desire to do so.  I just want to kill stuff.

Levi-  I guess I'm not saying it DOESN'T translate, what I'm saying it that I don't understand how it translates.  Seems that I fly the best when I watch a film of one of you guys taking on the world.  Situations that don't start with a full throttle merge in equal planes, and normally consist of a lot of kung fu and crazy antics.  I know you learned that stuff in the DA, but I am just not seeing how.  

I went to the DA with sniper, and I learned quite a bit, but so far I can just see it applying to the DA.  If I was to pull a double immelman in my SpitV off the merge in the MA, I would drop the nose in time to see the con disapear from icon range  

This isn't a hit on the DA or anything else, I guess I'm just trying to grasp how I can learn to be effective in both arenas and not squander the little playing time I have available.

[Howitzer]

Originally posted by HavocTM
My DA Strategy... take off heading the wrong way and run like hell.

They can't kill you if they can't catch you!

You still play this game?    

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Howitzer
 If I was to pull a double immelman in my SpitV off the merge in the MA, I would drop the nose in time to see the con disapear from icon range  

This isn't a hit on the DA or anything else, I guess I'm just trying to grasp how I can learn to be effective in both arenas and not squander the little playing time I have available.

Nothing you can do if the other guy does not want to fight.  DA style or not.  However, you can use the stuff you learn when they do decide to fight.

[HavocTM]

I have it on good authority that Howitzer wears a skirt when dueling.

[pellik]

Once you get really comfortable with DA tactics you can time them to avoid those pickers in the MA, and be successful more often then not. I usually try to control the fight so that I'm always on the bottom half of a rolling scissors when the picker comes, so that my slightly higher speed and turn rate make for a hard shot. If you're really good at fighting you can usually manage to make adjustments for this without costing yourself the turnfight, although it will be hard to gain a solid advantage until you can devote your concentration to the turner. After the dweebs miss 3 passes or so they usually come to join in the turnfight, at which point you can just loop around em both and pretend they are just one big target.