Originally posted by mrfish:
huh? i'm not sure i get your rebuttals but my response is a simple math exercise.
- if someone is dead they can't murder anymore - there is no chance.
- if someone is alive they can still murder. ex: what if a freak earthquake knocked the prison guard tower over the fence and collapsed the wall that sh*&hole mcveigh was living out his life sentence behind? what if he waltzed out and into the arms of some seperatist group somewhere and then proceeded to plot out and destroy another building? is it HIGHLY improbable? yes. but there is some probability and what toad is saying is that most of us are not comfortable with any chance when it comes to things like mcveigh. why should we be - they have some supernatural place in the inuverse because they are humans???
what is the probability that the spider walking across your kitchen floor is going to bring death to your family? extreeeeeemely minimal. he is probably just cruising around looking for a fly but you pass judgment on him and summarily execute him simply for tresspassing?! any guilt there? your life adoring sanctity only expires when a human becomes involved. your place on the food chain makes you judge and jury somehow? its arrogant.....
he (mcveigh) has forfeited his place among us - he dies because he is a risk and a much greater danger then that spider you smushed....you say i am a hypocrite but i dont get how. either=
a: become a buddhist, announce all life is sacred and live it. that means not stepping on bugs eating meat wearing leather etc........or
b: admit that in order for the whole to get by as peacefully as possible some lives have to be eliminated. namely those that threaten the peaceful cooperative people. it is harsh and unpleasant but so is having them among us.
you are taking individualism to an extreme - our rights end when they infringe on someone elses. when you murder you give up everything - you are just a useless sack of food at that point. it is a scary thing to think someone can take your life but it is the risk you take when you try to make the world a crappy place to live like mcveigh did.
will some innocents die with juries deciding people's fate? yes. will some innocents die if we invade the shores at normandy? yes but it was necessary to ensure the freedom of millions. such is the nature of war.
yes shake and agree to disagree but make sure you arent getting your opinions from some shakey jawed tearful emotion speech on some tv drama and that your opinion comes from logic and fact -
First of all, Jihad, I in no way suggested handing him an olive branch. Hardly, incarceration may be worse than the death penalty if it's for life - depends upon age and individualism.
Now, mrfish... I hate to say it, but you stepped over the line. My philosophy on this does not come a shakey-jawed speech on tv. I practically never watch it. It is not because I am afraid for myself or for others. It is a matter of personal opinion that comes from both my religious and personal views, and to have those insulted is something I do not take kindly to. Don't do it again. My views are my own.
Now then... anyway, you said it yourself - such scenarios as you proposed are HIGHLY improbable. I would estimate the chances at about 1 in 1,000,000,000. Maybe a million, but no less. It could just as easily happen while he's waiting on death row as when he's in prison.
I'm sick of hearing the argument that "some must be sacrificed for the good of the many." I'm sure most of those being sacrificed don't feel that way. Some of you say that you don't mind the risk of being accused and put on death row. I call you liars.
As was said already, feeling human life is sacred while not believing that other life is so valuable is not hypocrisy, it is a philosophical standpoint. So you call me a hypocrite, but I'm not
. Your place as a human being makes you judge and jury on another human being? How arrogant. And how arrogant of you to assume that you know the best way for one, especially me, to live according to their beliefs.
Finally, something to think about. "No choice" is an illusion that people create for themselves when they are uncomfortable with the decision that they have made or when they do not really want to take the time to well and truly examine and implement a better way of dealing with a problem.
McVeigh thought he had "no choice." He was fooling himself. So are you.
All IMO, of course
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StSanta, Jammer, etc, put it very well, I believe... they have some good things to say. Oh, and thanks Jammer
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I'm ducking out now. Clearly you are going to stick to your guns, and I sure as hell am not leaving mine. So I'll get out before this thread deteriorates. This post was pretty strong, for me.
S!
-ispar
