Author Topic: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05  (Read 1169 times)

Offline Wotan

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« on: May 20, 2005, 04:38:44 PM »
Bf 109E.WMV

Won't stream for me so try 'save as'...

Offline spitfiremkv

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2005, 06:20:28 PM »
need a Kleenex...

Offline TracerX

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2005, 06:26:02 PM »
Very nice footage.  That looked like a nice 109, not the messed up Merlin jobs that I am so tired of seeing.

Offline JB73

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2005, 09:23:45 PM »
thats SWEET!!!!!

 that 109e sure could roll ALOT faster than ours, he did a 360 in a bit over 1 second on the film, like 1.75 maybe 2 seconds
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Guppy35

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2005, 11:16:51 PM »
Don't forget the 109G footage floating around from an airshow in France as well.

Looks like the guy loses it at the top before recovering.  A pretty kite nonetheless :)

Dan/CorkyJr
http://p51d20na.club.fr/bf109g_lfa.wmv
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Offline Ecliptik

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2005, 11:33:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
thats SWEET!!!!!

 that 109e sure could roll ALOT faster than ours, he did a 360 in a bit over 1 second on the film, like 1.75 maybe 2 seconds


He did not complete a full 360, it was more like 270, and it was way over 2 seconds.

Offline bunch

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 03:12:34 AM »
thanks a ton for posting both links.
those were very fun to watch & i will certainly see them both again many times.

Offline JB73

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2005, 03:30:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ecliptik
He did not complete a full 360, it was more like 270, and it was way over 2 seconds.
according to the time stamp on the film it is just at 2 seconds....

and it looks pretty close to a 360 to me.


what does our AH 109 e take, 5, 6 full secsonds?

there is no doubt that if that film is right, our FM on the 109e aileron authority is off.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Flyboy

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2005, 04:51:44 PM »
does it have an original engine or a replica?

Offline Guppy35

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2005, 12:23:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
does it have an original engine or a replica?


Original engine.  Not carrying ammo obviously so not as heavy as it would be combat loaded.

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Offline Loddar

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2005, 03:33:50 AM »
Yes nice one :aok

Walter Eichhorn fly this Bf109E the same
as his T6. Ok, the 109 is a bit faster :rolleyes:

Saw him flown Bf109G6 too in Germany
:cool:

Offline Ecliptik

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2005, 12:32:56 PM »
Are you so sure JB?  From what I see it looks like he performs little more than a 180 in 3 seconds:


At 1:32 - We see the underside of the wings, and the plane has already begun a roll to the right.



At 1:35 - He stops rolling, we see the top of the plane, which is still oriented in a left bank, never completing a whole 360.  From the first picture, this is more like 270 or less.


Offline JB73

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2005, 11:10:29 AM »
i can pause it from 1:31 or 1:32 all the way to 1:34 to 1:37 and make it look like whatever time i want....

2 seconds for 270 if you wanna call it that, our 109E takes over 5 for 270.

i can not believe you DONT see the discrepency in this film and the AHII 109E performance.

im not saying either is perfect. but that much of a varience??? that's like making a racing game where a ferrari takes 12 seconds 0-60


somewhere in there is the proper medium i think, and i think it should be looked into.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Ecliptik

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2005, 12:46:30 PM »
JB, I was quite careful when I did this.  I watched the clip dozens of times and paused frame by frame.  Sure, you can pause it from 1:32 to 1:34, but in that time he only does 180, if that.  I was actually very liberal in when I considered the roll to be started.  As you said yourself, I could have paused at 1:31.  I tried to pause again as soon as the rolling stopped.   Again as you said, I could have paused later, which would only have increased the time the roll apparently took.  I think everyone who watches the video and isn't blind can agree that he never completes a 360.  At no point do his wingtips return to their pre-roll orientations.   That being the case, changing the times that I paused the video would only seem to increase the time it took for the maneuver.

I never said there wasn't a discrepancy between reality and AH, because I don't fly the 109E.  But I found your claim of a 2-second 360 to be very disputable.  That's a really fast roll rate for any plane, and I think this video does not contain evidence that the 109 is capable of it.

Also, you cannot expect HTC to watch a blurry video of a 2005 109E, largely rebuilt and restored, potentially from many non-original parts, and expect them to change their flight modelling.  They mainly use wartime performance analysis documents, which are generally much more reliable.  To me, this is like watching a shaky camcorder video of a point of light in the sky and then telling everyone there is life on other planets.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 01:09:28 PM by Ecliptik »

Offline Kurfürst

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109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2005, 03:51:10 PM »
How fast the 109E rolls in AH right now?
The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site
http://www.kurfurst.org