Was this Law really just passed in Norway?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Western values force us to play their game with one hand tied behind us as is.. Guantanamo is necessary.

Indeed... when the news article of Koran being flushed down the toilet at Guantanamo got publicity, it caused alot of aggressive unrest in Afganistan.
Nobody knows whether it was true or not, even though the news agency pulled back the news. Better yet; nobody in the middle east will question the bad news, making the bad news even worse.
Now they're going to raise up the issue of US soldiers torturing prisoners in Afganistan - including two cases where a prisoner has been tortured to death.

These questionable prisons do not fit more than a handful of people and as if it isn't already serious to detain people without charges or ability to meet with a lawyer, these people are being tortured.
Every time when such case becomes public, it could create as many new terrorists as the US has detained "suspected" terrorists.
Is this really beneficial for the cause?
Is this the freedom you've been advertising all over the middle east?
Democracy? Human rights? Fair juridical system for everyone?

Also keep in mind that the middle east isn't the most educated areas in the world or with the best news broadcasting coverage, which will make it alot easier for the terrorists to turn them into anti-americans with little effort.

Guantanamo kind of places might get a handful of people in front of the law.. or should we say justice as we know it, because they aren't covered by any laws, not even by human rights, even though they're kept there by the americans.
However meanwhile the handful of people are used as an example of the american evil doers.
There are more delicate means to bring these people in front of the justice, which wouldn't have even nearly as much counter productive effects.

[Skuzzy]

Fish, if the goal is to find something negative to exploit, it will be done, regardless of the truth.  They hate us, they will find something to feed that hate.

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Fish, if the goal is to find something negative to exploit, it will be done, regardless of the truth.  They hate us, they will find something to feed that hate.

While there's a lot of truth in that, Skuzzy; the obvious anachronism that Guantanamo represents also fuels dissident opinon amongst Western doubters.

I've no doubt that the people captive i Guantanamo are an important resource.

None the less; it's not; not will it ever be acceptable for a regime that prides it's self on leading "freedom" to "dissapear" people.

It should be done better.

And that's the point that Hangtime's making; I suspect. No regime has totaly clean hands; but that doesn't mean we stop washing

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
It's quite logical:

If a person has no job, money or a place to live what does he do? Commit crime to bring food to the table.

I haven't seen yet a Romani at work. Have anyone else?

And I hear it from a person who critisized Soviet "labour law"!

For those who don't know: in USSR it was illegal not to have a job, you could go to jail for "parasitism". That's why we didn't have bums and beggars. I mean - there were no bums and beggars in the streets at all.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Boroda
For those who don't know: in USSR it was illegal not to have a job, you could go to jail for "parasitism".

I assume you actually mean a labor camp with less than ideal working conditions, to do the job that nobody else would.
It'd be awful waste of resources to throw a "parasite" into jail and do nothing.

The russian communism had many ways to turn things to something useful...
However I still wouldn't want to live under communism, as I would view some of the useful utilization in a rather bad way.
When it comes to their country, the communist always sees the good side in things, never the bad. scary.

[Nilsen]

focus please.. you guys are way off-topic

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Fishu
I assume you actually mean a labor camp with less than ideal working conditions, to do the job that nobody else would.
It'd be awful waste of resources to throw a "parasite" into jail and do nothing.

Well, many "creative" people had to find jobs as yard-keepers or stokers in order to escape accusation in "parasitism"...

I know very few real accusations in "parasitism" that ended in sentence to prison/labour camp. Yes, people in labour camps really worked at some "unpopular" jobs, and, the funniest part, usually got comsiderable sums of money after they were released...

Usually "parasitism" problem was solved by local authority, people were advised to get a job. With almost any job you could get an accomodation in a "hostel" - a right to have a place to live was one of the basic guaranteed rights too. Some jobs were popular only because they promised a personal flat in several years, or even immediately like on Zelenograd electronic factories in the 60s.

Anyway, there was nothing very "cruel" or "inhuman" in this practice, nothing tragic. Even compulsory treatment of alcoholics was a nessesary measure, at least as I see it now.

Interesting, but Gypsy lifestyle was not seriously influenced by Soviet power. In railway stations Gypsy women were telling fortunes robbing naive people just as they did for hundreeds of years. Now they still do it, but main Gypsy business is selling illegal drugs...

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Fishu
The russian communism had many ways to turn things to something useful...
However I still wouldn't want to live under communism, as I would view some of the useful utilization in a rather bad way.
When it comes to their country, the communist always sees the good side in things, never the bad. scary.

I bet you'll never notice any differernce between current state of affairs in EU and "communism"

Some things were ugly, some things were practical, some things were good. Again - it was different, but people are people everywhere and it wasn't a "horrible life under  evil opressing regime", it was normal life with some values shifted (relative to "free world").

Anyway, why should I focus on bad sides of Soviet socialism when you already know everything muuuch better then me?

[Staga]

Originally posted by Nilsen
He doesnt drink?
and he lives in Finland?
and close to you??..
AND HE DOESNT DRINK???

Are you having a web connection in your whaler? Shouldn't you be clubbing baby seals or pillaging and raping British isles?

[Nilsen]

lol staga:D

I have a gang of illegal workers doing that for me.. im just sitting on the pier with a pina colada watching them run.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Nilsen
I guess guantanamo serves a purpose. Its their methods and the fact that they put people there without actually charging them with a crime.
You must agree Hangtime that atleast some of them are innocent of the crimes.... they are not charged with!? ehh..

If the good guys starts to bend the rules even just a little bit at first and then maybe more than you are getting dangerously close to creating a state you really dont want. How do you separate the good guys from the bad guys if you dont clarly stick to your side of the dotted line? (and in a high profiled place like guantanamo has become its even more important)

Nils, I dunno... I just don't know. "Innocent" doesn't sound like an appropriate label for a Guantanamo inmate, to be sure.

Unfortunately, every nation at war has had a 'Guantanamo'... the nature of war makes it necessary. From the comfortable perspective of un-involved spectator it's inhuman, evil. From the perspective of the kids on the line it's a reason to take a prisoner rather than make a martyr. If the troops get a sense of 'catch and release' they WILL NOT take any more prisoners.

Guantanamo is necessary. If there's a rational alternative that permits the removal of live enemy hostiles, suspected partisans and logistial support personel from the battle area, I'd love to hear it.

[Nilsen]

Well..

There is something "iffy" about the photos comming out of that place, and they are neither criminals nor POW's am i right?

and.. those the have been released from there have been so because they are innocent right (nor proven guilty) or else they would not have been set free.

But yes... there is a need for POW camps and prisons for suspected criminals.

[airguard]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Yup. Outlawed 1950 but ended as an 'eugenics' crutch in the 30's.. not a pleasant piece of american history.
 
Norway on the other hand was a mite more enthusiastic.. the program really got going AFTER the war; topping out in the 1960's and 70's. Law didn't come off the books till 1988.

Care to explain a happy lil Norweigan Concentration Camp called Svanviken, finally closed down in 1986?

Now, clue here.. this ain't a Norway mudraking tour.. it's a rational set of questions regarding some difficult to comprehend social issues in Scandinavia. If ya wanna muck rake, I'll keep meetin yah head on.. if ah wanna enlightin us, please do.

Well I think I am pretty aware of what is happening in my own country and this one: "Norweigan Concentration Camp called Svanviken, finally closed down in 1986?" is a none existing place ?

Where did you get that info ? I need to know because I never heard about it before and for sure if its real i do want to know.
(I hope you didnt read the nazi ramp website and used that as a ref.)

I really dont get why youre bashing us this hard, and if you do please do it right.
Why in earth did I ever considered to get back to this forum, its a child playground for some .

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Well..

There is something "iffy" about the photos comming out of that place, and they are neither criminals nor POW's am i right?

and.. those the have been released from there have been so because they are innocent right (nor proven guilty) or else they would not have been set free.[/i]

But yes... there is a need for POW camps and prisons for suspected criminals.

Not quite what would be expected of an inhuman murdering buncha yankee imperialist invaders bent on the destruction of Islam.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Not quite what would be expected of an inhuman murdering buncha yankee imperialist invaders bent on the destruction of Islam.

hey, i never accused you of beeing yankees