Filibustered!

[Nash]

Flibustered!

I am partisan, and despite my attempt here to frame things as objectively as possible, I know that it's not possible. With that in mind, here's my take on tonight's events:

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Advantage Democrats: Republicans gave up an opportunity to squelch forever the Minority Party's (Democrats') ability to Filibuster judicial nominations. By last count, they had the votes.

Advantage Republicans: Democrats gave up their ability to Filibuster judicial nominations unless as a result of "extraordinary circumstances", the definition of which is not known to anyone, including the deal makers.
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Advantage Republicans: Three controversial judges make their way to an up or down vote, who would not have done so under the existing filibuster rules.

Advantage Democrats: Democrats concede the three judges, but preserve their ability to fight the more important nomination/s for the Supreme Court.
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Advantage Democrats: Bill Frist, seen as the front-runner for the run for President in '08 is now dead in the water, as he made promises he can't deliver, and cannot control his own party.

Advantage Republicans: Anybody, including Hillary, could wipe the floor with Frist. Now Republicans can run a formidable contender.
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Advantage Democrats: Despite being the minority party, they were able to stave off an attack on 200 years of Senate history, tradition and process.

Advantage Republicans:  American citizens have consistently come down on the side of the of the Minority party's role to advise and consent, favoring maintaining the Filibuster. Tonight the Republicans avoided a dramatic and likely damaging fight.
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Uhm... I guess that will do. There obviously are other advantages/disadvantages. That's where you come in. Being the unapologetic political junkie that I am, it's without any compunction that I admit to being fascinated by tonight's development.

It's an impossible request, but please try and limit your replies to cold, objective observations of this deal. I know that as much as I attempted to try, and failed, so will you. But please make the attempt.

[NUKE]

Interesting Nash, and thanks.

I have been pissed at the dems for not allowing a vote, but I can't blame them for using a tool that is available to them.

I feel that a fillibuster in order to obstruct a vote is not right. Ultimately, I feel that the people have spoken and put a majority of republicans in office and that an up or down vote should not be blocked.

Anyway, great points Nash.

[Hangtime]

I'm unable to consider the democratic party as anything other than a joke.. any party that embraces the likes of Al Sharpton doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning another national election.

*sigh*

Glad that the filibuster survived in some form.. not that it's gonna matter much anymore.

[Nash]

The Democrats don't stand a chance of ever winning another national election? Evar? Again?

All because Sharpton ran, it's time to pack it in?

Certainly an interesting observation, which curiously leaves out scores of lunatic Republican candidates and the effect it didn't seem to have on the party's chances, but which has nothing to do with tonight.

I'm more intrigued by your "not that it's gonna matter much anymore."

[Hangtime]

Whelp.. next election it's my guess another republican landslide.. and when the smoke settles, the republican advantage in both houses will stretch out to a comfy margin.

.. and now that the fillbuster has had most of it's teeth yanked, wot good will it be then?

We're on the road to a one party system.. the democratic party is dead; it's been dying since LBJ ticked off the south with the civil rights bill. Clinton was the last.. there will be no more dems in the White House. *sob*

Would be nice if the silent majority in this nation hauled it's wide flat bellybutton up off the couch to vote.. but that ain't likely unless somebody comes up with an issue that could spark more than flatulence from 'em.

One thing tho.. maybe... if gas hit's 5 bucks a gallon with a republican in the whitehouse and the army still in Iraq without Osama's head on a pipe then the nation might elect a freakin dog catcher.. or Sharpton.

[GreenCloud]

Sharpton is the least of there worries..

can you say.......Dean"..omg..thsi man is off is rocker

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by GreenCloud
Sharpton is the least of there worries..

See what I mean... Sharpton, least[/i] of our worries.

*sigh*

[NUKE]

I don't think the dems are dead, but they are on the ropes. Clinton was pretty damn lucky that Perot ran, otherwise he would have never been elected.

Carter was a complete failure and the republicans have dominated the senate for awhile.

[Silat]

Originally posted by GreenCloud
Sharpton is the least of there worries..

can you say.......Dean"..omg..thsi man is off is rocker

Holy snikies !!

With everything this admin has done to this country.
The out and out lies to us.

The backroom deals with our own version of the Islamic Fundamentalists. Yes I mean the fanatical Christian Right.

The obvious corp largess and all you can come up with is THE EVIL DEMS?

  LOL I weep for the future

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Silat
Holy snikies !!

With everything this admin has done to this country.
The out and out lies to us.

What has this administration "done' to this country?

[Hangtime]

...and the WMD is where?

(note.. new record. only 4 posts and Nash's well reasoned discourse has gone hopelessly off the rails. Soory dude. )

[NUKE]

Nash made some interesting observations.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Nash
Flibustered!

I am partisan, and despite my attempt here to frame things as objectively as possible, I know that it's not possible. With that in mind, here's my take on tonight's events:

----------------------------
Advantage Democrats: Republicans gave up an opportunity to squelch forever the Minority Party's (Democrats') ability to Filibuster judicial nominations. By last count, they had the votes.

Advantage Republicans: Democrats gave up their ability to Filibuster judicial nominations unless as a result of "extraordinary circumstances", the definition of which is not known to anyone, including the deal makers.
----------------------------
----------------------------
[----------------------------
----------------------------
Advantage Democrats: Despite being the minority party, they were able to stave off an attack on 200 years of Senate history, tradition and process.

Advantage Republicans:  American citizens have consistently come down on the side of the of the Minority party's role to advise and consent, favoring maintaining the Filibuster. Tonight the Republicans avoided a dramatic and likely damaging fight.
----------------------------
 

Missing the events of the evening I am assuming they struck a deal on thsi whole filibuster issue.

Wise move. had they forever squelched the minority parties ability to filibuster eventually it would come around to bite em in the arse when they became the minority party again.

And at some point they will be.

This is a pretty amazing country I think. we always seem to balance things out. when the country goes too far left we vote to the right. and vice versa.

While I Voted Bush last election I am seriously hoping the Dems or someone else puts up someone worth voting for as I now feel we are starting to lean too far to the right.
The opposite was true after 8 years of Clinton.

I and I think most Americans like things more in the middle.
I think its safe to say most Americans are moderates reguardless of party affiliation and feel going too far in one direction or another is not good.

[Nash]

A Republican landslide (in 06' I presume).

It's funny. I look at your words Hang, and shake my head. Not because I disagree. But because I am compelled to actually think the same.

Very recent history proves my faith in common sense to be without justification. And your words to be more than justified.

It's really damned hard to let go.

The filibuster issue was to me in every sense the Republican's - upon the fulfillment of a 30 year struggle to control all three branches of government - effort to finally finish the job.

It's over-stepping.

Because at this point, there is really nothing left to do but wipe out the Minority. As if the Minority doesn't serve a purpose. As if the Minority were just in the way. As if the 49% of Americans who elected that Minority into office suddenly didn't count.

As if 51% of Americans were all that mattered to America.

With that slight of a lead, one to two percent, I find it near criminal to use that advantage to browbeat near half of every American into, arguably, total capitulation to the 51%'s will.

Never mind the particular issues, it's offensive.

But hey, it just seems to work. I don't know why.

Tonight? A significant event played itself out in one of the most important battles and (for now) resolutions that has ever faced the Senate in my lifetime.

Majority. Minority. Their respective roles.

Does the Minority in effect have no, none, zilch role? Do they lose the ability to speak for half of America simply because they happen to be the minority? Does half of America suddenly not count?

Do the wishes of 49% of Americans get dismissed out of hand, because of the wishes of the 51%?

It's pretty important stuff, I think. And it is sadly the tendency of some to trivialize it using worn blanket political rhetoric which dismisses outright the significance of events such as tonight's.

Personally, if one calls himself a patriot, believing with every fiber of his being in the just and righteous republic of the United States of America - he must speak honestly and without fear of reprisal. Especially now.

He would not look to play at flaky relativism via Sharpton. For it is just a distraction. And the growing multitudes of people who take that route do nothing but weaken the object of their ambivalence as if it were a forgone conclusion.

It is not.

Quit it.

[NUKE]

Nash, again a great post.

I feel that the minority should not be able to block the majority simply because they can filibuster and overrule any vote. That's not fair in my opinion.

The people have voted and placed these people in power for a reason.

A filibuster seems very contrary to democratic vaulues.