Author Topic: Audio Radar Setup (Read 517 times)

hacksaw1 · « **on:** May 24, 2005, 06:52:31 AM »

I propose an audio radar to resemble more closely that used in WWII. Wouldn't replace current DAR, but be available for historical arenas (and ToD?)

WWII pilots were informed by radio of cons detected by surface-based radar. Nothing like the all-encompassing clipboard-map-DAR of AH - which is a necessity in MA to find action.

But for historic, mission-based play, audio radar comm is needed.

AH uses built-in audio - engines, wind, tracks, damage, gun fire, bombs, crashes, explosions, Check 6...

Audio radar informs a pilot of cons at given intervals e.g. every three minutes. It would report them all relative to the pilot.

Ex:

"You have -
two - contacts,
bearing - 1, 5 degrees,
range - 2, 2 miles
heading - 1, 8, 0 degrees,
altitude - angels 2, 5"

To minimize resource demands:

Report interval of 3 mins or greater

Prompts say "bearing 1, 5 degrees" "range 2, 2 miles" to limit numerical prompts to 10.

Bearing reports based on 10 degree sectors

Heading rpt - 20 deg. sectors

Rng rpt - 2 mile increments

Alt rpt - 1000 ft incre. - reported as - "angels 2, 5" (= 25k)

3 cons or more in adjacent sectors - "multiple contacts" and the sect. with the most cons

Hdng rpts of muliti cons as an average direction based on last few seconds

Code the radar with params to vary sensitivity

Best regards,

Cement1

Westy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2005, 08:21:12 AM »

Love it but eh

.... good luck!

For a clue what I mean do a search using the word "awacs" and see how many people need the "crutch."

hacksaw1 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2005, 10:47:37 AM »

Yeah Westy, I realize that such a radar system would force pilots to use more thought while flying. And obviously it won't replace the all-knowing radar in the MA. But it would be nice for those who don't mind thinking about what's going on. So, if it could be added, I think it would be great.

I'd also say that I don't believe this audio radar would require excessive additional coding. Most of the information is already processed and displayed on the DAR. So it is mostly a matter of adding another user interface that uses audio prompts instead of screen displays.

Best Regards,

Cement1

Furious · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2005, 11:45:16 AM »

The dar informtion sent by the server is the same for all members on the same team. So, for a special event, 2 sets of data (one for each side).

Your system requires the server to send individual players tailored packets of information.

How much server processing time did you add?

hacksaw1 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:36:13 PM »

Could be wrong, but it seems to me that all dar info is not identical for different players, even on the same side.

My position on my dar presentation is always the center of my map, and is always indicated by the aircraft icon. So apparently the main server figures out my position and displays it as me - packets that are specifically taylored to me. Anyone else's position, friend or foe, is always relative to mine and is always indicated by a dot on my map. Everyone is already getting some measure of user-specific packet information.

So, it seems to me the AH program running on everyone's PC could be modified to take the dar info that's already coming to it and use an audio interface to present it instead of the current dar presentation.

Best regards,

Cement1

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2005, 03:06:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hacksaw1
Could be wrong, but it seems to me that all dar info is not identical for different players, even on the same side.

My position on my dar presentation is always the center of my map, and is always indicated by the aircraft icon. So apparently the main server figures out my position and displays it as me - packets that are specifically taylored to me. Anyone else's position, friend or foe, is always relative to mine and is always indicated by a dot on my map. Everyone is already getting some measure of user-specific packet information.

So, it seems to me the AH program running on everyone's PC could be modified to take the dar info that's already coming to it and use an audio interface to present it instead of the current dar presentation.

Best regards,

Cement1

Nope, your computer know where you are on the map and places you there accordingly. The server sends out DAR information for the whole map and your computer places you in that information.

The processing for your idea does not have to be handled by the server. It could just as easily be handled by the local computer FE. Assuming the DAR information includes altitude. The question is, do you want to allocate those processing cycles to the local FE? If you asking me the answer would have to be NO.

The only thing I see lacking in the map DAR is altitude. Which would be nice. The question is how do you represent it.

Dot size? No that doesn't work
Dot color? No to many colors now.

Just had a thought. How about an additional pop-out form like the e6b called radar information. Add it to the Right Click menu and it will give you radar information for the sector.

Approx. # on contact
Approx direction, S Sw E ...
Approx Atl
Aprox Heading

Interesting, but very low on the priority list IMO.

straffo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2005, 04:18:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furious
The dar informtion sent by the server is the same for all members on the same team. So, for a special event, 2 sets of data (one for each side).

Your system requires the server to send individual players tailored packets of information.

How much server processing time did you add?

I'm not sure it's setup this way (and I don't wan't to spend some of my tine deciphering AH packets

)

What hacksaw1 wanted can be done perhaps by the FE like the FE plot the contact on the clipboard.

hacksaw1 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2005, 12:59:46 PM »

Yeah, on second thought I agree with Clifra, that the main server sends identical info to all FEs, and since everyone has a unique ID, the local FE plots all contacts in relation to your location, identified to AH by your local ID. So as far as necessary info goes for audio radar reports, it is already available at the FE.

As to level of priority for this feature, I'd also say, de facto, that it would not be high, especially if the MA pays the bills. No point in continually broadcasting: "Multiple targets in all directions."

On the other hand, the turbo chargers on the P-38 actually spin, as does the tiny propeller for the generator on the nose of the ME-163. Spent shell casings drop from the wings of fighters. Those features wouldn't seem to be much of a priority, but HTC did them. So, as I suggested, audio radar reports might be reasonable for ToD and historical arenas.

The resource drain at the local FE might be an issue, or not.

Best regards,

Cement1

Westy · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2005, 07:34:35 AM »

Not sure there would be a drain of any kind on the the FE. Keep the bar indicators so you can find where the "fight" is.
But why couldn't the FE take the extremely detailed contact info coming from the host on severy specific con around you and instead of displaying it on a modern era F/B-111 in-cockpit type radar screen the FE translates that info into audio? And not every contact should be called into you - just the generalisation (see below) that a pilot in WWII would have recieved.
To help narrow down the reports the host has to flood you with you could call to "radar control" and request info for a specific direction from your position and receive an audio report which continues and helps vector youin? "Radar control? Rrequesting target information for NE my position" would receive back "(handle) Dover radar shows 7-10 bogies bearing 123degrees your position, range 25 miles, angels 11"

In a MA environment where sectors have single bogies scattered about clusters of multiple aircraft and most at different altitudes, etc, it may be more of a pita than it's worth. For TOD it would be very immersive IMO

(side note: if TOD has the current AH icon and all seeing awacs radar system in place I for one will be severely dissappointed)

straffo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 26, 2005, 07:45:28 AM »

Audio feedback need to be multi lingual ...
I can't imagine how much I'll suck if it's in English

Westy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2005, 08:32:16 AM »

Excellent point straffo!

straffo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2005, 09:05:47 AM »

héhé

imagine this :

"Vous avez
deux - contacts,
direction - 1, 5 degrés,
distance - 2, 2 miles
cap - 1, 8, 0 degrés,
altitude - ange 2, 5"

it would be disturbing (even if the word look english the sounbd won't be the same.)

hacksaw1 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2005, 11:36:50 AM »

Oui oui straffo, I wouldn't expect a prompt-set much greater than 30-40 word for the audio radar system, so language packs could be produced fairly easily. As long as you don't attempt to code sentence structure (for which there is no need) I don't see a problem with multiple languages.

Also Westy, I was a radar tech for F-4 Phantom II jets and its PPI radar display was not nearly as sophisticated as the display in AH. Jets of yesteryear could only display what the radar sees in front of the plane!!! My bro in law is an F-15 pilot and he told me that awacs is displayed in the cockpit these days. I also think there should be ways to limit the amount of reports, perhaps based on proximity and heading relative to your position.

I agree that there would be a strong immersive element in audio radar reports.

Best regards.

Cement1

TheCage · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2005, 05:35:38 PM »

Simple solution......get rid of the inflight dar, and make it available on the ground only. You want dar, then someone in your squad must sit on the ground and vector you around.

Furious · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2005, 07:09:00 PM »

Lets say we get this system and have found ourselves in the middle of a furball (MA, CT, SEA, ToD, whatever) with 20 enemy planes within reporting range range. The audio report would probably take 5 secs to give bearing, distance and altitude, maybe longer if given in an historical manner. So, for the next nearly 2 minutes you will be recieving constant audio reports, then the 3 minute interval expires and the reports start again.

Do you think this might be annoying? I do.