Author Topic: Why have rules for Squad ops?  (Read 919 times)

Offline Ghosth

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2005, 06:22:22 AM »
At 2 min to launch Sled still had 12-15 guys without squads he was juggling.

And thats not counting all those who got into a squad before that.

Offline BlkKnit

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2005, 08:49:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
Blknit, there is a difference between knowing that your flying with XXX squad, and forgeting comm channel.

And dropping into the arena and saying
"Who needs me, I'd like to fly allied tonight?"

Yes it was THAT obvious, and its been building to this point for some time.


heheh, OK, ya got me on that one.  I should have told him that the MAW might have room for him (and we did) and to check with IceMAW or T2MAW in the MA.  I didn't think LTOWN was the type to so openly attempt to get around the rules.  Might have just been a mistake.  Either way the example you give is pretty obvious. :D

About the "elitist" attitude which may creep into the "this is a squad only event" message.  The set up CM is usually very busy at the very time when the squadless are coming into the SEA.  I know I had times when I had no time to explain eveything about how to get into the event.  I DID usually try to have the information included in the MOTD.  Often I would have time to type out instructions to a newcomer....only to have them log off before I hit enter :mad:

Hmmmm....guess daddog isn't talkin to me (can't blame him if so, but I would like to apologize once more for my hasty disappearance).

edit: Oh are you still allowing walkons to man guns?  Or was that done away with before i left?  cant remember.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 08:51:29 AM by BlkKnit »

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Offline daddog

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2005, 09:07:51 AM »
Quote
Hmmmm....guess daddog isn't talkin to me (can't blame him if so, but I would like to apologize once more for my hasty disappearance).
Are you kidding? Swoop is sleeping in your bunk to keep it warm. Come back to the CM group! :)

Out the door and on the run. Will be AFK all day and will post more in this thread later. :)
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Offline BlkKnit

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2005, 09:16:25 AM »
hmmm....come back?  Is this my punishment? ;)

Actually, I'd love to, however, I think I should wait a bit unless you are shorthanded.  Got a youngin on the way, and its getting very close to TIME!  Wifes having contractions already, but not due for another month.  She might make it that long......

Umm, did Sunday Squad Ops go away?  Seems it had before I left, but again, my memory is lacking.

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Offline Easyscor

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2005, 09:26:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
At 2 min to launch Sled still had 12-15 guys without squads he was juggling.

And thats not counting all those who got into a squad before that.
Yikes!  If we're NOT talking about guys who weren't in uniform because of Coral Sea or another event then I have to agree, it's gotten out of hand.

Although I'm part of the 68th for FSO, I'm never in the correct uniform when I enter the SEA and I have to wait for KO to send an invite when he has time.  There have been times when I arrived at the last minute so on more then a couple of occasions I didn't get into uniform until just before we rolled.  I would like to think all those guys were in the same situation, hope so anyway.
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Offline ghostdancer

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2005, 11:24:20 AM »
I will email all the Squad COs and XOs a reminder about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to filling out the slots for their squad for that night.

Basically it all comes down to making arrangements to fly with a squad before the actual event (before 30 minutes coming into the SEA and looking for a slot).

A simple email, post in the BBS, or chat in the MA before hand suffices so that a person comes in looking for the squad they chatted with and are just looking to get the squad colors on.

There are many reasons for this but it all comes down to really two issues. First off the setup CM can not handle us also having an unlimited walkon aspect to the FSO. We would be asking him to do all he is doing now plus then also to try to keep track if the sides are balanced, parse walkons out to the one side or another to balance things, find a squad that has a slot and is willing to take a person they don't know,  make sure he does not cause a squad to go over his numbers, and then brief a new person on the rules.

Then the squad that gets the walkon basically has to integrate the new person and hope and I do mean hope that the new person is going to ignore things and go fly off on their own or do something stupid like just shoot down allied pilots because killshooter is off.

Its very hard to setup a new person and brief them, get the sense of them, assign them, etc., etc. in 15 minutes or so while juggling everything else.

This is why we don't have CMs try to deal with walkons.

So why don't we increase things to another CM. Simply because we built FSO so that it can run every 3 out of 4 weeks and provide enough structure to allow us to crank things out such a short time table. Adding another CM basically adds more administrative overhead and forces the designer of the event to have built in fall back things in the design if the numbers get way out of wack because of walkons. And also clouds the issue about whether a squad is really making its committment levels or not .. and instead relies on walkons to fill things out (what if none come by) instead of actively recruiting to get people to consistently show up. Adding another CM to handle walkons would impact the time we could turn around and run another event and impact the time it takes to design these type of events (one of the reasons why scenarios that have walkons run once every 3 or 4 months).

The other issue is a trust issue. When a squad goes to the MA to find people they go looking for people they know and trust. Which is crucial .. because the actions of one person can severely damage their rep and actually effect the event (i.e. a person goes off on a wild hair and triggers the base under attack warnings along the route of a sneak attack .. way before the main force gets there).

So they go looking for people that they know they can trust and brief very quickly on what is expected of them and what the objectives are. Which is why we don't mind squads who are understrength going over to the MA looking for guys to fill out their ranks.

A completely newbie is an unknown and actually a disruption to both the setup CM and some squads to try to brief at the last minute before the event. And basically both are taking a risk on a person that they don't have to time to brief and settle in. Now if the event was left wide open we could end up getting not 1 or 2 asking for a slot but say 20 or more.

So very quickly that is why the event was designed not to allow walkons. We politely tell them no (as COs and XOs should) and tell them if they give us their contact info we can get them hooked up for the next frame.

I am also considering allowing them to gun buffs though. Discussing that pros and cons of that with the CM group. Basically we don't have to worry by side balancing, disruption problems by not having them fully briefed, and other issues if they just gun a buff .. but they do get a taste of the event.

I will send out an email reminder to all COs and XOs on this issue.
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Offline Midnight

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2005, 11:25:31 AM »
The one good thing about some squads picking up a walk-on or two is that the overall numbers for the event are more filled. As long as squads don't go over capacity during the event, I don't think I mind if they use walk-ons.

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Why have rules for Squad ops?
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2005, 12:08:57 PM »
That's a catch 22, nice to have more numbers but I think squad ops should be just that. Plenty of other things going on where walk ons are welcome and needed but just my 2 cents leave em outa here.