stick stirrers

[Roscoroo]

ok when in the ma and i get knife fighting hard with an nme thats stick stiring i get the dont move your controls so fast message????

this only happens in the ma in heavy furballs ... never in the da inder the same curcomstances

[OOZ662]

Sometimes snap-spins are showen as aircraft that are stick-stirring. Any sudden movement in the MA is exaggerated until the conclusive heading/position data shows up. It happens in the TA sometimes, too.

[Mugzeee]

I get this sometimes too.
While saddled up on a bandit and he begins jinking up then don and left then back to the right. When i try to mirror his movements i get the "Do not move controls so rapidly"
Most of the time ending in me getting shot down or crashing.
I wonder to myself every time. "Why didn’t the bandit i was following get the "Do not move controls so rapidly" message?
I have increased dead bands to help a little.
My question is. Why do we have the message at all? Is it responding to our joystick spiking? or is it HTCs attempt to limit our stick movements? I would think the former and not the latter. Otherwise i would think both players would get the message.

[Schatzi]

Maybe the jerky movements are caused by lag?


In DA I once tried to show a squaddie a evasive maneuver i use in Hurri when things get very tight. On my front end i was never even stalling out (scissoring while using rudder to add slide) and on his it looked like i was stick stirring (dryland-trout-maneuver).

While flying, i never get the 'dont move etc' message...

[AKFokerFoder+]

The anti-stick stirring program hurts the honest player more than the cheat.  If you have an old joystick, you are going to get locked out and die.  I had to scrap my old sidewinder because of that software "improvement"  Some dweeb stick stirs, so others have to buy new joysticks to punish him.  

Sort of like drinking poison and hoping the other guy dies.

It is typical of the human beast to try to control human behavior by overkill.  We can't change human behavior, we can just punish the innocent.

The solution?  Buy a new joystick

[RELIC]

I use a Microsoft Sidewinder and have never gotten that message.

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
The anti-stick stirring program hurts the honest player more than the cheat.  If you have an old joystick, you are going to get locked out and die.  I had to scrap my old sidewinder because of that software "improvement"  Some dweeb stick stirs, so others have to buy new joysticks to punish him.  

Sort of like drinking poison and hoping the other guy dies.

It is typical of the human beast to try to control human behavior by overkill.  We can't change human behavior, we can just punish the innocent.

The solution?  Buy a new joystick

I agree. Been using the same jstick for 5-7 years and over the past 3 months have noticed I got the message more and more often. It got to the point where I can no longer use my beloved jstick do to the fact that any type of stall riding would result in the message. What makes me sure of the fact that it's the stick is that with my new one I shake and stir on it more not being use to it, and still receive no message. I sure do miss my old stick though, old friend:lol

[Kweassa]

There are no honest players who fall under stick stirring.

 Anything that is a blatant stick stirring will cause control locks for everyone with no exceptions.

 If somebody just mashes on the controls to cause irregular and unexpected movements that does not trigger control lock, and somebody else has trouble shooting at him, then by all means he's doing a good job in evading enemy fire in whatever way he can.

 Such movements hurts speed and stability of the plane. A slight detour and he's cannon fodder, just as he'll ever be.

 Since the guy who tries to follow enemy movement will always have to watch first, and then respond, it is only natural that as a result he will be changing control input faster than the target plane, in order to catch up with his movements.

 Nobody forces anyone to follow every enemy movement. All you gotta do is know where he'll end up, and then wait there. If there is a danger of control lock, and yet still the pilot chooses to risk it to try and not let go of the enemy plane, then there's basically no one to blame but himself. He is neither 'honest' nor 'innocent'. He knew the consequences, he chose to ignore it.

 Frankly, since starting out AH with version 1.05, the 'dont move your controls so quickly' has not for once, been a problem for me.

 Perhaps we should consider that the only reason it seems to do more harm than good, is because its everyday functions are invisible to us, while only its drawbacks are ever visible.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Kweassa
If somebody just mashes on the controls to cause irregular and unexpected movements that does not trigger control lock, and somebody else has trouble shooting at him, then by all means he's doing a good job in evading enemy fire in whatever way he can.

Couldn't be further wrong. Stick stirring happens all the time. It can be filmed. And the pilots that do it know how to do it without locking up. Specifically I know of one pilot that feels stick stirring is a good tactic as it keeps him alive. Well he doesn't lose control due to "dont move" messages.

I myself have done some testing in the past. I can stir without getting the message as well. You don't lose speed or anything, because you're not moving. Just your input it. You just stir real quick, real shallow, and your plane doesn't move but your image of your plane rotates around all axis on everyone else's screen.

It's BS. It's because every client gets predition data based on current input direction or plane direction. If the plane literally only moves a fraction of a milimeter (which it would think was happening, when you stick stir) then it predicts that you're turning that way on everyone else's screen. Then it has to re-predict from that heading 5 times in rapid succession as it receives a fast series of new inputs, and the client re-predicts current headings several times. That doesn't affect the flight path of the plane, just the way it faces as it skids along its original path.

It's a drawback in the prediction code. No way around it without massive recoding. And it's coded like that in the first place to save us ALL a lot of bandwidth for information every milisecond.

So it's an exploit if the pilot does it. It's not something you can punish. It's just there, because of the need to keep bandwidth requirements low.

Simply ostracize stick stirrers, and smack them down HARD, so they learn how to fly (instead of how to game the game). Heck, only the weaker pilots even try it nowadays, as even basic flight skills get you past the point of stirring.

[jetb123]

in a zeke just pull up hard, and it puts you in a flat spin. When the enmy passes just turn the eng off kick out some flaps rudder away from spin, and turn eng back on. This should end you on his six. Not that I do it. Seen skychimp doing it once. So i tried it on him lol.

[GunnerCAF]

Think about what is going on behind your screen when you are on a server with 600 players:  

  - Your PC processes the information and sends a signal down the internet across the conuntry or world to HTCs servers.

  - The HTC servers are getting 600 packages of information, process it, deturmines who is close to who, then sends the results out to every PC who is in visual range

  - The package is sent back down the internet, across country or world to your PC

  - Your PC processes this and shows you the result

This all happens in milliseconds giving you the illusion of real time play as if the opponent is really behind the glass of your monitor.

HTC is the King of massive multiplayer on-line games and I have never found another massive multiplayer on-line game that plays a smooth as AH.  The proof is posts like this where the average player really believes they are playing exact real time.  

WTG HTC!

Gunner

[Clifra Jones]

Kw is correct. I do not follow the maneuvers of players when it looks like they are stirring. I will usually chop throttle, pull an out of plane maneuver, wait for them to stop thier dweebish behavior and then blow them away.

Stirring will only defeat another dweeb, not a competent pilot.

[Roscoroo]

now what i ussually do  is chop throttle and move way less then they are ... ussually i barrel roll to slow enough to get the shot as they violently Split S .. its about the same time i finally get the shot that i get the control message and it locks me from the shot .  

1 it maybe hardware .. js vs gamming rigs
2 game latency or packets .
3 software / intardnet

this only happens when behind a stirrer or   in a huge furball now and then (very heavy traffic in that one area)

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Roscoroo
now what i ussually do  is chop throttle and move way less then they are ... ussually i barrel roll to slow enough to get the shot as they violently Split S .. its about the same time i finally get the shot that i get the control message and it locks me from the shot .  

1 it maybe hardware .. js vs gamming rigs
2 game latency or packets .
3 software / intardnet

this only happens when behind a stirrer or   in a huge furball now and then (very heavy traffic in that one area)

Question, how does someone else's violent stick movement affect your FE? If that is the case then that is a problem.

Although, I have never seen this message.

(full CH setup)

[OOZ662]

Causes for the message:

1. Purposeful movement that exceeds the set limit by HTC.

2. Joystick spikes, usually from worn out joysticks, that makes the game think you are yanking the stick around. Is usually a 0 to 100% input jump in less than a second, so you don't notice but the game does.

Causes for the "freak out" plane in front of you:

1. Player yanks the stick all over and eventually gets penalized. (Ideal)

2. Player yanks stick once and flips into a snap spin. Computer tries to predict where the plane will go while waiting for packets but shows faulty information.

3. Same anticipation tactic happens when extremely fast but small inputs are made in random directions.

4. A packet is lost, causing the plane to rotate in the air before doing a massive warp. (Not as common)

5. You're drunk. REALLY drunk. Go to bed.