CH F16 combat stick and pro throttle w. pro pedals issue pls help

[joegovernale]

Anyone who can help, I have 3 days in town to try to fix my Dad's problem. The game was working fine, but his buttons are not programmable. Regardless, the biggest problem is setting up his CH flight stuff to work with XP. He runs the throttle and joystick together with the pedals to a game port.

Windows assigns an x/y axis for the stick, a z axis for the throttle, and an r axis for the pedals. only one button registers in control panel. He does not have the $$ to purchase the USB version, which would solve his problems. I have heard MS shut down the port the game card runs on due to security issues. Although he had intermittent probs with the game, it worked. However, for some reason, now windows only calibrates 1/2 of the range of motion on the forward / back joystick movement. Hence there is no dive function enabled.

I am hoping someone can tell me how to set up properly so everything works with the full range of motion.

Thanks,
mjg

[Deth7]

Get a serial to usb adapter?

[jon]

did you try setup in the game . i am not an expert but i setup my joystick in the game not through windows

[StarOfAfrica2]

NOTE:  I have never used an analog Throttle setup with the stick and rudder pedals, so I cant help you there.  I know people have had trouble getting them setup correctly, although they do work.  I have no idea how to set that up.  You may want to disconnect the throttle for now until someone more knowledgeable can help with that part, and just use the wheel throttle on the stick.

First thing you have to do (if you havent done it yet), is go to the CH website and download the XP drivers.  CH isnt listed by default in the Windows XP joystick list.  Once you have downloaded and installed the "Legacy devices" drivers, select the appropriate stick from the drop down menu in the Control Panel -> Game Controllers -> Add screen, and check the box at the bottom that says "Enable Rudders and Pedals".  Calibrate the stick and Rudders.

Start up Aces High.  Select either Online or Offline, doesnt matter.  Once  you are in the tower, look at the bottom of the clipboard.  Click on Setup -> Controls -> Joystick -> Select Joystick.

You will see three windows.  The left window says AH Control and lists Roll, Pitch, Throttle 1/2/3/4, etc.  The middle window says "Joystick", which really means "Controller", and should list your joystick and probably your mouse (note that you wont see the pedals here, in the "legacy" or analog devices, the pedals are part of the joystick.  They do not exist as a device on their own).  The third window says "Joystick Input", and lists (none), X axis, Y axis, Z axis, Z Rotation, Hat switch (and another if you have 2), and your buttons.  Here's how you set them up.  Check Roll in the first window.  Make sure your joystick is the highlighted device in the second window.  Make sure X axis is the highlighted input in the third window.  Click on the button that says "Set Input" below the third window.  Check Pitch in the first window.  Again make sure you joystick is selected in the second, and slect Y axis in the third.  Set input.  Select Throttle 1, Joystick, Z axis.  Ignore the other throttles, you only have 1 (they should be set to "none").  Select Rudders, Joystick, Z Rotation.  Left and Right Brakes are set to none, because the analog pedals dont have toe brakes (or actually they do, but there is no way to make them work on a modern computer so just pretend they arent there). Hat 1 should be set to Hat Switch.  Set any others accordingly.  

Click on the "Apply" button to the right.  Down at the bottom, click "Back".  Now again go to Setup -> Controls -> Joystick and this time select "Calibrate Joystick".  It will ask you to move your rudders, stick and throttle around in full range of motion, then click on OK.  Back out until at the original menu, you should be setup.

Again, I cant tell you how to setup the Pro Throttle, as I've never used one in XP or any other OS, and I know others have had trouble setting them up so I'm trying to save you a headache.  If someone comes along in time to help you with it, disregard my advice and go for it.  I know having the throttle working is a huge advantage over guys like me who use the little wheel throttles.  

Good luck!

[MaddogJoe]

I have the CH F16 fighter stick, with the CH throttle, and CH pedals.... all analog. I run them on an XP machine and all work fine....  

First Star has a lot of good info, update everything ! Next, plug everything into one plug. If you run down to RadioShack you can pick up an "analog to USB" adapter for $7 and this works well, or you can use a game port on a sound card. The important thing is to put them all into the same connection.

Once they are all plugged in, go to window set-up and calibrate the stick. Two ways to go here, first if you upgraded the drivers you will find a CH stick listed and can select it here, or if ya didn't, you can use any  generic 3-axis stick. Be sure to check the rudders box!

Once calibrated in windows your stick and everything SHOULD work. The programing of the buttons is the next problem. The analog CH stuff is no longer supported by CH, which means they no longer update the programs for the analog stuff.... they don't have time for us poor folk I guess The problem comes from the stick profile programs only work in DOS. One guy came up with a "bootdisk" to work around this. You can go here http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=324 to DL the CHfixDS.exe file. This forum has a ton of info about how to set it up in XP. I believe you have to be plugged in thru the game port for this to work, but once you have up loaded the profile to your stick and throttle you can then move the connections to a USB port if you prefer.

Last thing, the CH analog stuff runs thru your keyboard interface. I have had trouble with the wires breaking in the splitter plug due to the weight of the plug hanging out of the back of the computer. Off the top of my head I can't tell you how.... as I fixed mine a long time ago... but I've rewired all the plugs on mine and have had no trouble since.

Good luck!

[joegovernale]

I cannot locate the Serial to USB adapter, there are only 9 pins available. This is a 15 pin.

I have also tried the 3 axis joystic, in windows and it works, but I frequently lose autopilot and frequently have to go back and recalibrate the joystick in the game.

I have also downloaded the CH drivers, but the program is cancelled during setup, though I am using admin priveledges.

Next will try

Will try Blazer Bruce's fix, but it is a 02/2004 post, do you think with all the patches and SPs for winXP it will still work? Hate to mess up dad's puter.

Thanks again,

mjg

[joegovernale]

He does not mention specifically the F-16 Combat stick, unless that is what he means by fighter.... sorry for my ignorance.

[MaddogJoe]

OK heres the adapter http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=26-164

Loosing auto pilot is in most cases a sloppy joystick. When in the game, bring up the joystick settings window. All input lines should run across the blue box in strait lines. If their are any spikes that axis is dirty or getting tired. Increase the "deadband for that axis a little at a time appling it each time till the spikes disappear.

Bruces fix is a set-up to run a minumum DOS operating system. What it does is stops windows from loading and stays in the DOS enviorment so you can run the stick set-up programs. So all the XP updates and such are not even brought into play here.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by joegovernale
I cannot locate the Serial to USB adapter, there are only 9 pins available. This is a 15 pin.

You dont want a "serial" to USB adapter.  You want a Gameport (or MIDI port) to USB adapter.  Game/MIDI ports are 15 pin, Serial ports are 9 pin.  I've never seen a serial joystick.  I think Deth7 meant Gameport.

I have also tried the 3 axis joystic, in windows and it works, but I frequently lose autopilot and frequently have to go back and recalibrate the joystick in the game.

You can do this, although as you noted sometimes Windows doesnt read the info properly using a generic setting.  Still, Ive used it on my Flightstick Pro as emergency measures, it does work.

I have also downloaded the CH drivers, but the program is cancelled during setup, though I am using admin priveledges.

Perhaps you got a corrupted download?  I'd delete the download, try it again, then try an install.  Also, if you've had a corrupted install, try deleting the files, then cleaning out your registry before downloading and installing again.  Corrupted Registry entries can cause problems.

Will try Blazer Bruce's fix, but it is a 02/2004 post, do you think with all the patches and SPs for winXP it will still work? Hate to mess up dad's puter.

Havent read the post myself, but I'm vaguely familiar with the content.  It should still be viable, as the basic code for Windows XP hasnt changed due to SPs.  

Thanks again,

mjg

No problem!  Good luck!

[Agressor]

I know exactly what the problem is but have been unable to correct it myself.  I have been messing with it for the last week and cant get the joystick to function correctly.

SA2, you are spot on wih your directions.  However, the problem is that the ch joystick loses elevator control when pulling the stick backward.  Well, losing control isnt exactly right.  It makes the ac turn in a lunge like motion.  Will turn a touch smooth, then lurch forward, then smooth, the lurch forward again.  All this in a 2 second pull back on the joystick in a right banking turn (or left).

I noticed that in the "select joystick" section in the 3rd window that the input numbers are constantly fluctuating up and down from 30000 to 32600 or so under pitch.  Too fast to tell exact numbers really  All other inputs for roll, throttle 1, ect are static.  No movement at all.

I have manipulated deadband and it's counterpart under joystick settings.  It will smooth it a touch, but still starts to lurch forward again.  It is driving me insane as well.

I have tried gameport to usb converter.  Serial to USB converter (as my stick uses both inputs as a Force FX Stick) and directly placed into the SB Live Value Soundcard Gameport.  Same exact situation in all respects.

My throttle is working correctly (as Im sure his will too), pedals are perfect (as Im sure his will be as well).  All joystick input (roll) works perfect.  Just the pitch when pulled to the rear is porked.  Pitch forward works perfect.

Currently running
AMD 2400xp +
512 memory
G-Force 4
CH Force FX (using winxp drivers from c&h)
CH Pro Throttle
CH Pro Pedals

If there is any insight out there it will help me out as well.  I hate the idea of having to ditch my 10 year old CH setup.  We have flown a lot together

Regards,
ReDhAwK
of the Mygearisporkedandididntevenge talousytshirt tribe

[Lord ReDhAwK]

updating profile.  just ignore

ReDhAwK

[joegovernale]

Ok, here is the story:

The best I can do is the 3 axis 4 button joystick, though windows only recognizes one button.

All hats, views, and previous buttons, i.e. wep, guns, gear work, though I do not know how or who had set it up that way, probably my brother's file sent email and dropped into the config., perhaps back in the Win 98 / analog days.  He no longer has the floppies to program, and CH on their web site states:

NOTE: The drivers only provide minimal analog support for the CH FighterStick and the CH Force FX. They will show up as plain analog controllers, but there is no programming available nor are force feedback effects supported. There is no support for the CH Throttles.

So no sense messing up a good thing, even if not so good. Bruce’s fix may work but I leave Thurs and hate to mess anything up and have to start over and run out of time.

The 15 pin game port convert to USB will allow me to calibrate and operate the joystick, but as Maddog Joe pointed out, the problem is no keyboard. Also he has only 2 usb’s and one is for the mic and the other his printer, though I am sure there is probably an external USB. Again, probably not worth the hassle.

I did attempt Star of Africa2’s config, but it turned my rudders into throttle, and I went back and got everything right with assigning the various axis.

RedHawk is on the money regarding the constant fluctuation of input numbers. I did try adjusting the deadband. In the top box, the lines run fine, but there is a straight line and an arced line on the roll, pitch, and rudder in the lower box. Throttle has only one line.

Probably the best option is another time when I have the time to try Bruce’s fix and then program buttons, if it works. Problem is if it does not, I don't know how to get his current config back, perhaps the file can be backed up, I have never messed with the CH programming.

I think the real problem is that Windows XP is not allowing me to calibrate the joystick perfectly in the game controller. I have tried various configurations, and the cross hairs in the calibration box either won’t center or if they do, move after calibration when going back to look at it in the test box, or the cross hair stays centered but flutters in the center, which probably explains the constant input fluctuations ReDhawk mentioned.

My Dad never drives a tank so he may not experience the problem and if so can always reboot and / or recalibrate in the game. I can walk him thru that on the phone. Forget WinXP calibration, it is over his head as he is getting up there in years.

Thank you everyone for your help and ideas. Feel free to reply to any of the above if you like, otherwise, I guess this is a matter of learning to pick your battles. It works ok most of the time…..

Regards,

mjg

[StarOfAfrica2]

Forgot to mention that about the rudders.  The normal configuration uses Z axis for the rudder, Z Rotation is for the throttle.  For some reason I do not understand, at some point inputs got switched around in one of the more recent patches, and rudders would only work when selected as "Z Rotation".  I meant to post it and forgot all about it, since it worked and it wasnt something that was obvious each time I logged in.

I cannot explain why, but sometimes a stick takes in WinXP and sometimes it doesnt.  Insofar as calibration goes I mean.  Mine wouldnt calibrate the first few times I installed it, as you indicated.  Or I would get weird lockups a week or so after installing, and I'd have to uninstall the CH drivers and reinstall them.  I finally had success after using a registry cleaner in between installs, so thats why I included that piece of advice.  It did work for me, but I can't guarantee that's what the problem was.  

Sorry I didnt catch the part about it being one of the Force FX sticks.  I would have mentioned it wont work as anything other than a generic stick.  I thought you had an F16 Fighterstick.  One problem you might be experiencing with the "bouncing" is the return springs on the stick might be worn out, or something might not be working right without the FX drivers from CH.  I dont know.  I used one of those sticks in Win98 for awhile, and it was awesome.  Had a great feel to it.  But I have no idea what an old one without the FX drivers would do.  It could also be the rear pot is going bad.  I had the left one in mine go out a few years ago, and it went kinda flaky first.  They arent expensive, its just the time it takes to take the stick apart and replace it.

Mine is a Flightstick Pro, and has been in use for nearly 9 years now, running for almost a year under XP.  I hope it eventually settles down for him, as the CH stuff is about as dependable as stuff can be.  I'm hard on equipment, and mine has lasted a looooooong time with very little work.  Great testament to the construction of their stuff.

[joegovernale]

here is where I am at, having thought about this last night.

I am thinking if I could get the drivers to download as used bruce's fix and ran speed keys the setup SHOULD BE programmable.

(once I reboot, the program goes away and back to XP loaded files, but tricked by the workaround to allow CH templates, etc, right?)

My dad showed me a file on his backup HD from before XP, which is a *.PTW file simply called Aces High. The file is dated 11/14/02.

There is also a file called Microsoft Office Outlook Configuration file called stick.cfg, dated 11/09/02

Unfortunately, he does not have the CH program disks for the stick and or speed keys, However I did find an old CRD by CH Products vF.3.  which has setup.exe, CHJoy3.exe, JCenter.exe, and JCWin.exe.

Additionally, among other folders is one called Drivers\Speedkey with a setup.exe

If someone could tell me how to back up the current configuration and the path, and / or what is a *.ptw, I am thinking I have nothing to lose trying Bruce's workaround, loading up the proper software, if it is still viable and someone could tell me which ones to run after booting from Bruce's disk, I may have nothing to lose....SO LONG AS the files he currently has could be dropped back into (path?) whereever they belong and I could go back to a 3 axis, 4 button joystick in windows/aces, which should keep his views, the few buttons that work, wep, guns, and gear.

It's just a thought, if I am getting in way over my head, as stated, perhaps I should leave well enough alone.

Thanks as always,
mjg

[MaddogJoe]

(once I reboot, the program goes away and back to XP loaded files, but tricked by the workaround to allow CH templates, etc, right?)

Right, Bruces program will configure the computer..... only till you reboot with out the boot disk in the drive.... so that the program that you use to communicate and up-load a profile to the stick can run.

As far as I know you can not back-up an uploaded file. When you save file (profiles) you will have a *.psw file with a corasponding *.fsw file... well at least mine do. When you up-load a profile your programming a chip in the stick... much like flashing your BIOs on your computer. I don't remember seeing any place to save a profile from a stick, you ussally save it before up-loading it.

If you do have switch function working, but they are not to your liking you can re-map the keys in the game to switch around your stick. Say if you pull the trigger and it drops a bomb, you go into the game and change the primary fire button to the secondary. see what I mean?

If you don't have switch funtions then you have only two choices...try Bruces program to up load a new profile, or stay as you are and live with it.

A 3 choice is get a Saitex set-up cheap to get ya by with   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16826102501