Author Topic: Only Criminals Encrypt  (Read 869 times)

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2005, 03:52:24 AM »

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2005, 08:03:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan


This is no different then say when some one is charged with planting a bomb and investigators find a particular book about bombs or 'bomb making' ' or watching a movie whose theme is similar to the act. Would you cry and whine about 'Now books or movies = criminals'?

 


But what if they find a trashbag full of shedded paper? do we say "we claim its a bomb making book" why else would he shred that paper?

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Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2005, 09:11:51 AM »
This is what happens when a Democratic Governor appoints a liberal judge.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2005, 02:16:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shamus
But what if they find a trashbag full of shedded paper? do we say "we claim its a bomb making book" why else would he shred that paper?

shamus


What did the prosecution claim in regards to the encryption software?

Do you even know?

 How did the jury interpret the encryption software?

Do you even know?

You all are a bunch of chicken littles.

No warrant was issued based on the software. The investigation into that guy didn't start based on him having encryption software on his cpu. That was found after the fact.

The issue is whether the prosecution could 'bring up' the fact the defendant had encryption software on his cpu during the trail.

Its up to the the jury to interpret that evidence. They can ignore it all together if they so chose.

There's no claim that the guy was convicted on the encryption software. I would agree with the 3 judges and the trail judge that  the encryption software 'at least somewhat relevant to the state's case against him'. It certainly doesn't prejudice the defendant to the point where he should get a new trial.

Some of you better go hide, I think I hear black helicopters...

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2005, 02:45:51 PM »
Here is some more info on the case.

The Guy was a third grade teacher.

The case involved former third grade teach Ari David Levie, who had been convicted by a lower court on two counts of soliciting a child to engage in sexual conduct when he offered his nine-year-old niece $50 to pose naked for photographs.

The evidence of PGP was used to show criminal intent.

There were no encrypted files found on his compueter.

During court proceedings, the prosecution presented as evidence the fact that Levie’s computer contained a PGP, or Pretty Good Privacy, utility. The court in its finings said that it used this evidence in reaching its verdict.

However, a forensic investigation by police showed that there were no encrypted files on Levie’s computer.

http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?cat=2&id=8903

Sorry but siding with the courts on this one.  The appeals court ruled that submitting the PGP as evidence was minor compared to the testimony of the girl and his searches of "lolita's" on the net. He's a third grade teacher what is he doing with the best encryption program out there? That is what (I think) the prosecutors were pointing out and the Appeals court agreed.

We find that evidence of appellant's Internet use and the existence of an encryption program on his computer was at least somewhat relevant to the state's case against him," Judge R.A. Randall said.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2005, 02:49:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
He's a third grade teacher what is he doing with the best encryption program out there? That is what (I think) the prosecutors were pointing out and the Appeals court agreed.


Ahem... PGP is free. As for being the best, maybe it is, but I doubt it. What it does have going for it is software integration with typical desktop apps.
sand

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2005, 03:00:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Ahem... PGP is free. As for being the best, maybe it is, but I doubt it. What it does have going for it is software integration with typical desktop apps.


Like I said the best. Free only crackable by NSA computers...What does a third grade teacher need it for? He's not some CEO or Security guy. He's a friggin third grade teacher.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2005, 03:02:06 PM »
Quote
The appeals court ruled that submitting the PGP as evidence was minor compared to the testimony of the girl and his searches of "lolita's" on the net.


Exactly as I thought...

Quote
He's a third grade teacher what is he doing with the best encryption program out there?


Who cares what he was doing with it. The prosecution probably used it to imply something like 'What does he have to hide..?.

Its up to the jury to take that bait if they choose. However, the appeals court judges made it clear in that introducing such evidence is not grounds to over turn the guys conviction.

That's a far cry from the court stating:

Quote
Only Criminals Encrypt


or any of the other conspiracy kook, 4th amendment crap being thrown about in this thread.

The guy preyed on a 9 year old, as part of the investigation the government searched his cpu for possible evidence, found he had encryption software.

He wasn't charged with anything related to encryption software, he wasn't rounded up or targeted for investigation because he used encryption software.

The prosecution while presenting its case 'brought up' the encryption software and the rest was left up to the jury.

The appeals court decided the rest. As it should.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2005, 03:33:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Like I said the best. Free only crackable by NSA computers...What does a third grade teacher need it for? He's not some CEO or Security guy. He's a friggin third grade teacher.


Well... I'm not a CEO or a security guy, but I've used PGP. I know plenty of people that do. At the very least, it's a useful tool to digitally "sign" your emails.
sand

Offline lada

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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2005, 04:31:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
You know, camera technology has dropped so much in price, I bet it would be feasible to place them as safety monitors in our homes.  

Think of all the people it would save!  Spouse abuse, drug use, all of these things would be abolished.  And CHILD ABUSE!

We could have a network of people who watch others to make sure that everyone is safe.  Worried about grandma alone in her big house?  Don't worry, neighborhood watch officer Johnson has his eye on her!

Please, think of the children!

After all, it's not like you have anything to hide...


hey thats great idea... and it could solve problems with unemployment :D

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2005, 05:08:15 PM »
where there any pictires found ?

It says he offered 50$ if she posed.
Now, if he did, it's screwed up, however some kids do make up crap. And if that's the case, and then existance of PGP is enough to convict, that's plain wrong...

As for internet searches, i bet most of you would be locked up as deranged sex maniacks and would be rapists if all your search histories were pulled in over the years...

Offline Tuomio

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« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2005, 05:36:47 PM »
Is it illegal to ask a underage girl to pose naked for pictures? How do you prove in court, that somebody asked thing like that? Is there any other thing that is illegal to verbally propose if you do not insult?

They are unable to get hard facts on the table, so they start grasping straws. I bet they could grasp all sorts of unrelated "questionable" features from archives i YOU were the suspect.  I'm pretty sure there is actual legal term for this kind of garbage stacking, where a lot of nonsense is piled up to make it look like evidence.