Author Topic: Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree  (Read 843 times)

Offline Toad

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2005, 04:38:11 PM »
Quibbling?

'Activist" judges are considered to be those that do not strictly interpret the Constitution.

"Textualist" judges are considered to judges who make their decisions based completely on the Constitution.

Do you see any difference in the one judge who stretches interpretation to bring about change and the other who uses the strict interpretation to prevent change?

What's your definition of "activist" then? Or are none of them "activist"?
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2005, 05:23:43 PM »
I would humbly suggest that both sides would say they "strictly" interpret the Constitution.  One side may interpret it in a more traditional manner.  But when you are "interpreting" something, right or wrong can be completely a POV (depending on the rules used for reaching an interpretation).

Not disagreeing, just making a point.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2005, 05:39:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I gotta ask. What laws have the Supreme Court made?


Brown vs Topeka Board of Education decided that "Segregation of white and colored children in public schools has a detrimental effect upon the colored children...A sense of inferiority affects the motivation of a child to learn."

While not legislation, it certainly has been law by precedance.
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2005, 05:50:05 PM »
Gawdamn liberal activist judges deciding that that the citizens of this country have equal rights and that segration is unfair. Damn them! I wonder what it was in the Constitution that could have put that idea in their heads.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2005, 06:00:09 PM »
Geeze Sandman,

You wanted an example of laws made by the courts, I gave you a famous one.  

Precedant is a vitally important aspect of the practice of law.  It is cited by those who interpret legislation, ie. judges.  Decisions of judges like any human beings can be wrong, case in point the Supreme Court's biggest historical blunder, the Dred Scott decision, which (temporarily) strengthened slavery.  One precedant based on another based on another can, by the law of unintended consequeses cause the original law to be interpreted in a far different way than intended.  Depending on the justness of the law this can be good or bad.
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Offline john9001

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2005, 06:16:46 PM »
do the states have to inforce federal law, and do they have the legal power to inforce federal law?

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2005, 06:38:31 PM »
did any of you actually READ the article or the ruling??????

The court did not pass judgment on medical marijuana use they simply said that federal law does in fact prohibit it and that....oh hell.  This isn't judicial activism or any thing else just


Quote
Justice     John Paul Stevens, writing the 6-3 decision, said that Congress could change the law to allow medical use of marijuana.

The closely watched case was an appeal by the Bush administration in a case involving two seriously ill California women who use marijuana. The court said the prosecution of pot users under the federal Controlled Substances Act was constitutional.

"I'm going to have to be prepared to be arrested," said Diane Monson, one of the women involved in the case.

Stevens said the court was not passing judgment on the potential medical benefits of marijuana, and he noted "the troubling facts" in the case. Monson's backyard crop of six marijuana plants was seized by federal agents in 2002, although the California law was on Monson's side.
ustice     John Paul Stevens, writing the 6-3 decision, said that Congress could change the law to allow medical use of marijuana.


now how is that in any way judicial activism.  All they did was rule on wether the law ITSELF was constitutional.  Wich is exactly what they are there for....RIGHT?

some of you get off your high (no pun intended) horses and petition CONGRESS to change the law if you disagree with it.

Offline Toad

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2005, 08:34:30 PM »
I see neither Sandman nor RPM desire to discuss judicial activism wrt what it means.

Let me ask this then:

Sandman or RPM, do you agree or disagree with the SC decision? Precisely would YOU have voted with the minority or the majority? Why?

(Guns, I disagree on some of that. More later.)
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storch

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2005, 08:37:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I gotta ask. What laws have the Supreme Court made?
roe v wade

Offline Lizking

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2005, 08:37:27 PM »
Personally, I think they  read the law correctly.  I wish they would change the federal law, but it was applied as written.  There was no activism here, at all.

Offline bigsky

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Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor Agree
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2005, 09:02:47 PM »
U.S. Constitution: Eighteenth Amendment

Eighteenth Amendment - Prohibition of Intoxicating Liquors

Amendment Text | Annotations  

Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

Section 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.

 
Annotations

Validity of Adoption

Cases relating to this question are presented and discussed under Article V.

Enforcement

Cases produced by enforcement and arising under the Fourth and Fifth Amendments are considered in the discussion appearing under the those Amendments.

Repeal

This Amendment was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment, and titles I and II of the National Prohibition Act 1 were subsequently specifically repealed by the act of August 27, 1935, 2 federal prohibition laws effective in various Districts and Territories were repealed as follows: District of Columbia--April 5, 1933, and January 24, 1934; 3 Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands--March 2, 1934; 4 Hawaii--March 26, 1934; 5 and Panama Canal Zone--June 19, 1934. 6  

Taking judicial notice of the fact that ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment was consummated on December 5, 1933, the Supreme Court held that the National Prohibition Act, insofar as it rested upon a grant of authority to Congress by the Eighteenth Amendment, thereupon become inoperative, with the result that prosecutions for violations of the National Prohibition Act, including proceedings on appeal, pending on, or begun after, the date of repeal, had to be dismissed for want of jurisdiction. Only final judgments of conviction rendered while the National Prohibition Act was in force remained unaffected. 7 Likewise a heavy ''special excise tax,'' insofar as it could be construed as part of the machinery for enforcing the Eighteenth Amendment, was deemed to have become inapplicable automatically upon the latter's repeal. 8 However, liability on a bond conditioned upon the return on the day of trial of a vessel seized for illegal transportation of liquor was held not to have been extinguished by repeal when the facts disclosed that the trial took place in 1931 and had resulted in conviction of the crew. The liability became complete upon occurrence of the breach of the express contractual condition and a civil action for recovery was viewed as unaffected by the loss of penal sanctions. 9  

Footnotes

[Footnote 1] Ch. 85, 41 Stat. 305.

[Footnote 2] Ch. 740, 49 Stat. 872.

[Footnote 3] Ch. 19, 48 Stat. 25; ch. 4, 48 Stat. 319.

[Footnote 4] Ch. 37, 48 Stat. 361.

[Footnote 5] Ch. 88, 48 Stat. 467.

[Footnote 6] Ch. 657, 48 Stat. 1116.

[Footnote 7] United States v. Chambers, 291 U.S. 217, 222 -26 (1934). See also Ellerbee v. Aderhold, 5 F. Supp. 1022 (N.D. Ga. 1934); United States ex rel. Randall v. United States Marshal for Eastern Dist. of New York, 143 F.2d 830 (2d Cir. 1944). The Twenty-first Amendment containing ''no saving clause as to prosecutions for offenses therefore committed,'' these holdings were rendered unavoidable by virtue of the well-established principle that after ''the expiration or repeal of a law, no penalty can be enforced, nor punishment inflicted, for violations of the law committed while it was in force. . . .'' The General Pinkney, 9 U.S. (5 Cr.) 281, 283 (1809), quoted in United States v. Chambers, supra, 291 U.S. at 223 .

[Footnote 8] United States v. Constantine, 296 U.S. 287 (1935). The Court also took the position that even if the statute embodying this ''tax'' had not been ''adopted to penalize violations of the Amendment,'' but merely to obtain a penalty for violations of State liquor laws, ''it ceased to be enforceable at the date of repeal,'' for with the lapse of the unusual enforcement powers contained in the Eighteenth Amendment, Congress could not, without infringing upon powers reserved to the States by the Tenth Amendment, ''impose cumulative penalties above and beyond those specified by State law for infractions of . . . [a] State's criminal code by its own citizens.'' Justice Cardozo, with whom Justices Brandeis and Stone were associated, dissented on the ground that, on its face, the statute levying this ''tax'' was ''an appropriate instrument of . . . fiscal policy. . . . Classification by Congress according to the nature of the calling affected by a tax . . . does not cease to be permissible because the line of division between callings to be favored and those to be reproved corresponds with a division between innocence and criminality under the statutes of a state.'' Id. 294, 296, 297-98. In earlier cases it was nevertheless recognized that Congress also may tax what it forbids and that the basic tax on distilled spirits remained valid and enforceable during as well as after the life of the Amendment. See United States v. Yuginovich, 256 U.S. 450, 462 (1921); United States v. Stafoff, 260 U.S. 477 (1923); United States v. Rizzo, 297 U.S. 530 (1936).

[Footnote 9] United States v. Mack, 295 U.S. 480 (1935).
so where is the amendment to ban pot?

so how does the U.S. supreme court abel govern non interstate traffic in any substance?
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2005, 09:44:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I see neither Sandman nor RPM desire to discuss judicial activism wrt what it means.

Let me ask this then:

Sandman or RPM, do you agree or disagree with the SC decision? Precisely would YOU have voted with the minority or the majority? Why?
Do I agree with the decision? No. Would I have voted with the minority? Yes. Individual states should have the right to make and enforce their own laws. When you cross state lines, that's where federal enforcement should begin. In this case, there was no crossing of state lines by anyone other than the Feds.

In each of the instances cited no judge has made or created any law. They ruled a law unconstitutional and struck it down. That's the SCOTUS's job.
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Offline Lizking

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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2005, 10:00:26 PM »
Federal law trumps state law, as determined by a little tussle in the mid 1800s, regardless of interstate traffic.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2005, 10:21:35 PM »
I may be ignorant here but isn't there federal laws NOW that encompas the entire union not just selected states.....arent they in fact constitutional?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2005, 10:32:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Do I agree with the decision? No. Would I have voted with the minority? Yes. Individual states should have the right to make and enforce their own laws. When you cross state lines, that's where federal enforcement should begin. In this case, there was no crossing of state lines by anyone other than the Feds.

In each of the instances cited no judge has made or created any law. They ruled a law unconstitutional and struck it down. That's the SCOTUS's job.


Good.

You disagree with the decision and would have voted with the minority, basing your opposition on States' Rights.

I happen to agree with your assessment.

Now, given that you disagree, where do you find fault in the decision of the majority?

The majority said the federal law, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, was a valid exercise of federal power by the US Congress.

Quote
Government lawyers said it would be difficult to enforce the nation's drug laws if there was an exception for medical marijuana.

Stevens agreed with the government's argument. He said an exception for medical marijuana would leave a "gaping hole" in the federal drug law.

Stevens said the power of Congress to regulate commerce among the states included the authority to prohibit the local cultivation and use of marijuana in compliance with California law.


So it boils down to the SC allowing Congress to regulate medical marijuana because the Constitution allows Congress to regulate commerce among the states. Thus, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 is a form of interstate commerce regulation.

Here's what the Constitution actually says:

Quote
Section. 8.
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

etc.,

etc.,


Now, you don't think that's a bit of a reach from what the actual text of the Constitution says?

I'd say it's a HUGE reach from regulating "Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;" to saying that California cannot allow medical marijuana because marijuana is sold in interstate commerce.

In fact, it's near laughable. IMO.
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