Author Topic: Best Wood Deck Paint or Covering?  (Read 465 times)

Offline Halo

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Best Wood Deck Paint or Covering?
« on: June 06, 2005, 05:58:45 PM »
My large second-story wooden deck in Virginia is showing its age, about 20 years.  I got it off to a bad start by believing the installer who said it's treated wood so it will do fine on its own and you can stain or paint it if or as you wish.

Duh.  The deck is now pretty rough on the horizontal surfaces.  Years ago I started using transparent stain on it (waste of time), then semi-transparent (slightly better), and later opaque, all latex based since oil-based is being phased out anyway.

The opague needs refreshing every year or two.  It's Behr, rated pretty good by Consumer Reports.  

Some replacement wooden steps I started off right with Behr opaque stain and they're doing fine.  Too bad I didn't go with opaque from the beginning.

Still, I'm tired of the endless refurbishment.  I've looked at some of the new composite wood.  I probably would use that, at least on horizontal surfaces, if building a new deck.  However, it's so heavy that aside from the high cost, I'm apprehensive about adding so much extra weight as a replacement for present planks, yellow pine, I think.

I'm looking for some kind of commercial grade heavy paint or goop that could last at least 10 years as a reliable outside deck surface instead of the usual handyman deck stain/paint that is basically a money and energy drain .  

One candidate is Moby Deck FlexiThane from Seattle.  Any of you ever use that?  I'm looking for a wonder cure application for a 20-year-old large wooden second story deck.

I'd really appreciate any success stories you can share.  Some of you live in some pretty harsh climates so I'm betting you have some innovative deck cover solutions.
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Offline bigsky

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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 07:02:38 PM »
"I'm looking for a wonder cure application for a 20-year-old large wooden second story deck."

you will be looking a long time. if it was me i would sand the surface down to good wood and then start over. behr makes good stuff but a deck is basicly a floor so it will worn out by walking on. i would paint it with epoxy paint, not for the do-it-your-self types. another option is outdoor carpet. i dont know how it was built or engineered for the load it will carry so i cant advise you if the composite decking will work. post some dementions and joice layout and post layouts. i need some more info on design so  i can tell you more.
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Offline Lizking

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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2005, 07:29:04 PM »
Use Sikkens stain, and you will get 3-4 years out of it anyway (provided you prep it right the first time) on the horizontals and 5-8 years on the vertical surfaces.  You can rent a big bellybutton rotary floor sander that will remove some of the toe-stubbers, just be sure and use heavy sandpaper on the first pass, then follow up with something finer.

I am not convinced on Trex, mainly because of cost.

Offline Lizking

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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2005, 07:30:32 PM »
Also, 20 years is about the best you can hope for for a wood deck, even a well maintained one.

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2005, 07:43:51 PM »
heavy equipment doesnt turn yellow on its own ;)



:lol

Offline Stringer

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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2005, 09:25:23 PM »
Tear it down, and put in a composite deck (but stay away from Trex deck, there is lighter stuff in the market these days).

Offline Torque

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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2005, 10:40:00 PM »
i used a behr exterior acrylic enamel on an outside bench, been 6 years now and it still looks good.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2005, 11:34:15 PM »
A stain will not provide any protection, only color. You want a good weather sealer like Thompson's. It will provide 4-5 years worth of solid protection.

I used to live in a log cabin made of unstained poplar. Every 4-5 years I would high pressure steam clean the exterior and apply a fresh coat of Thompson's. It's still there 20 years later looking like the day it was built.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2005, 09:04:20 AM »
This post may end up going on for a while but I'm a contractor with going on 28 years experiance. So you might want to take heed

First thing Im going to tell you is forget Consumer Reports.
I have my own ideas as to how they come to their conclusions but that would be a topic for another thread.


Behr is garbage. Dont use it.

Reason why some contractors will rave about it is its cheap.
Unfortunately thats exactly what your getting. A cheap product.
You see a contractor that insists on using Behr..or Glidden for that matter. Stay away from him. He's either an amature. Or a theif and a liar.

All my jobs are done labor price + Material price. and I dont mark up the material costs (Makes for a good selling point) So what I use really should be irrelevent.
But I will tell customers that if they insist on picking up the material themselves, and "I pull onto the jobsite and see Behr or Glidden there Im getting back in my truck and driving away and they can find a different contractor.
May be your house but its my reputation."

Ok now you know how I feel about Behr.

Reguardless of brand. How long a product holds up depends on alot of factors.
What your applying it over.- On new pressure treated wood you haveto let the wood season (basically dry out) or nothing you put on will last very long.
If youve used a product like Thompsons Your going to have to pressure wash it real good with some kind of cleaner or deckstrip to clean it all out or it wont hold up

If youve applied a solid stain or paint top it already and its peeling its going to be hard to guarantee that it wont peel again as where its peeled it shouldnt but that doesnt mean that the old stuff wont decide to come up under what youve put on.

Other factors are climate and weather. The rougher the weather you have the shorter the time period is going to be that you haveto redo it. If you look at alot of houses you will almost always see one side always wears faster then the others. often significantly faster. This  usually tends to be the same side your weather comes in. This isnt because of a poor work but because thats the side the weather beats it up the most.

another factor is location. You may also notice one side has a greater tendancy to look dirty or get mold and mildew then others.
This side tends to be the shady side. Or the side that gets the most shade. Particularly with mildew.

Now in your case. What you want to do is forst pressure wash it with a product like "deckstrip" to give yourself a nice clean surface to work on.
Let it dry for at LEAST two days. Otherwise water can be trapped inside once you've put your topcoat down which may eventually cause it to peel.
Then  sand the whole thing down to get it smooth again. unless you dont care about how smooth it isThen apply a quality primer.
Latex or oil based in your case it doesnt matter since youve never used oil on it. If at any point anyone has used and oil stain or paint on it you MUST first prime it with an oil based exterior primer before putting any kind of latex topcoat on it. Or it WILL peel
Benjamin Moore, Zinzer, and Sherwin Williams all make good quality primers.

Then apply two coats of some sort of quality brand topcoat. Typically I reccomend a Solid Deck stain or exterior deck paint.

Brands I feel comfortable reccomending are.
Olympic Stains, Cabot Stains. Both are probably the very best in the stain dept.
With the next teir down being Benjamin Moore ,Pratt & Labert, and Sherwin Williams.
For Deck paint. and you want to use deck paint and not just house paint. the best are Ben Moore, Optima, Sherwin Williams.


You can use a two part epoxy but they arent somethign I reccomend you do yourself and in all honesty on the exterior probably wont hold up any better then deck paint unless applied under  perfect condidtions and with every single side of the wood sealed (again that water thing).

Right off the top of my head. that should do ya.
How long it lasts as I mentioned depends on a variety of factors includig the prepwork. and how much abuse it gets from both the climate and you(traffic).  But under average conditions should last you 5-10 years but by 10 years it will REALLY need it.
If you get alot of harsh seasons it will hold up a little less. Mild ones a little longer.

On average, Count on wanting to redo it every 5-7 years though just to stay on top of it.
Remember. the longer you let it go the more work it will be to get right again. and if your using a contractor. the more expencive it will be.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2005, 09:14:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
A stain will not provide any protection, only color. You want a good weather sealer like Thompson's. It will provide 4-5 years worth of solid protection.

I used to live in a log cabin made of unstained poplar. Every 4-5 years I would high pressure steam clean the exterior and apply a fresh coat of Thompson's. It's still there 20 years later looking like the day it was built.


Thompsons is a decent sealer/waterproofer and easy to apply.
Its parafin based (wax) Milage varies depending on climate.

But many reguardless of brand only make claims of 18 months.

Wolman has several products that are equally as good if not better and are easy enough for a homeowner to apply.
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Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2005, 11:58:48 AM »
Pick up the latest Consumer's Reports..They test lots of deck stains.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2005, 12:16:55 PM »
What I'd do is disassemble the deck into its major pieces, then bring it down to be powder-coated.  If your local powder coat place doesn't have a big enough oven, just have that bad boy anodized a nice shiny blue or red.

At the very least, have it galvanized.
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Offline Halo

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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2005, 12:36:56 PM »
Thank you all for your inputs.  Deck experience apparently varies considerably mainly depending on the weather.  We enjoy relatively good weather in Northern Virginia with long and gorgeous springs and autumns, summers that can get hot and humid, and winters generally mild but sometimes surprising with lots of snow.  

But regardless of weather, sounds as if best anyone can hope for with deck maintenance products is five years on horizontal walking surfaces.  That still surprises me.  I would have thought that somewhere there must be some miracle coating that lasts 10 years or so.  

However, another major factor in deck wear could be that all four surfaces (top, bottom, sides) on horizontal boards are rarely if ever coated.  Usually only the tops are painted with a little seepage into some sides.  

Presumably evaporation from the ground pentrates the untreated board bottoms and aggravates the problem?  My second story deck bottom is high enough that I could paint it, but I'm too lazy.  My deck is about 440 square feet plus steps, so it is not a casual job even for painting just the top surface.  

It's interesting the different experiences we have with products.  I always start my research with Consumer Reports but I don't always agree with their conclusions (e.g., their latest digital camera ratings don't even mention the Canon PowerShot Digital Elph SD200, which is my favorite all-around camera).  

And sometimes they have to eat their ratings after initial tests.   Some of their car and other equipment choices have plummeted after reliability problems.  Since reliability (endurance) is a separate issue from ideal new performance, some changes over the years are understandable.

I like the CR idea of continuing evaluations of paints based on how they fare each year after exposure to the elements in their tests.  Some paints have such poor endurance (at least in the CR tests) that CR no longer rates them.  

I probably have underestimated the effects of weather and general environmental influences on my house and deck.  My own litmus test is a glass table on a covered porch.  Within two or three days, in our apparently clean general suburban environment, the glass table top is covered with grime.

Much of it is pollen, but much also is plain ol' dirt.  So I guess after all this research and introspection, maybe it's no surprise after all that decks and other outside surfaces need more care that might be expected.

Unfortunately my deck, well built as it is, is fastened with screw nails.  So replacing my horizontal boards with even the lightest maintenance-free composites probably would tear up the supporting beams too much.

So I guess I'll stick with pressure washing and repainting every two or three years.  Not what I expected when the deck was built.  This year I'll look at a favorite of both CR and Drediock:   Cabot, specifically Solid Color 1880 latex opaque.  It's expensive at $29 a gallon, but might give me a third year of wear.  Hope springs eternal.
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Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2005, 12:52:51 PM »
I`ve found that by covering the entire deck with young, bikini clad females it will block the harmfull UV rays and stop erosion. :)
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storch

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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2005, 01:51:33 PM »
if it's pressure treated pine the contractor's advice was correct, also at twenty years age you still have plenty of deck life left.  the issue with ptp is probably *checking* those are cracks running with the grain while unsightly they aren't compromising the structure.  post a photo and i'll see if i can help you.    is it painted currently?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 01:54:02 PM by storch »