Author Topic: Bf109F-4 (Read 919 times)

RedTop · « **on:** June 08, 2005, 06:01:53 PM »

Ok...Now anyone who knows me in AH knows I am a Spit V guy. Love that plane and fly it MOST of the time...Hurri every now and then...And I venture out and fly other things from time to time....

I have been trying and would like to keep trying this 109.

What I need is some advice as to how to fly it effectivly and what it does or doesn't do. B.Z isn't my strong suit by far but I would like to maybe learn a bit more of it so I can understand what I am fighting as well.

Any tips on this ride from some LW guys would be greatly appreciated.

humble · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2005, 06:15:44 PM »

There was a thread in Ct about spit V vs 109F...phish and I flew a set in the DA. Truthfully I always felt the 109 was a decent match but 1 on 1 its totally overmatched since the spitties boost (a couple of clips up in CT thread). It's Still a great E fighter but has less power in the vertical than the spitty, is less stable "on the edge" and is ballistically challenged. All in all its a great perk harvestor and will match up well in the MA against most of the plane set....but if your flying a spitty as your "primary" ride it might be a big change. I'd actually suggest the ki-61 over the 109F....

I'd keep the plane in the verticals and use rudder to "track target" vs rolling with it...flat turns seemed to hurt it badly E wise. Acceleration is good but not with spit V. It's touchy on the edge and not easy to really stall fight vs hurricane/nikki/spitty/fm-2....eats up lala's ponies etc that get lazy around it...

Krusty · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2005, 06:55:01 PM »

109F... Hrm.. how to describe how it flies to a spit pilot.....

It's one of the more agile 109s. Compared to a spitV (bah!) it's not great at turning. Compared to other planes it's good. Think of it like a c202 and a ki61 but with more engine power (both of those planes have an older version of the 109F's DB600 series engine).

Sure, flat turning is not so great, but if you go up at the beginning of a turn and down at the end of a turn you'll kick bellybutton (think of a NASCAR banked turn). It climbs great and loops well. Requires some skill (unlike spitV -- zing!!), but once you get past the short learning curve you'll be gold. Just immerse yourself into it until you feel you have the hang of it (i.e. don't go fly the spit, the hurr, the zero, etc in between sorties), or it might take longer for your mind to figure out what it does well.

By that I mean if you just fly 1 model and over and over you'll learn more than if you jump around to pony, lala, dora, spit, etc.

pellik · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2005, 07:50:04 PM »

The 109F is one of the better middleweight fighters in the game. There are heavyweights you just don't want to fight, but you can most likely out run and out climb them. Likewise there are guys who can't turn with you and will run in fear. Basically anything you lose in turn ability you'll gain back in how long you can stay with a lala after diving.

Stay away from spitVs, hurris, zekes, and franks for the time being, as turnfighting them will require you to really know your plane. Other then those exceptions it's just the same old turnfighter game.

-p.

Eagler · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2005, 08:04:24 PM »

it is not fast enough for a crowd in ma but 1v1 you can handle 80% of the pilots in 90% of the planes but a good pilot in a decent plane will be a close fight if he doesn't kill ya

in ct when matched with planes in its era, it is a great ride cept for the upgrade they gave the spit5

50% with dt and no gonds to t&b with it

gl

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2005, 08:31:01 PM »

Pretty much what everyone else said.
Cept I always fly it with 100% fuel and the gondies as my gunnery isnt always what I would call supurb so when I hit something I want it to hurt.

Roll & turn roll & turn.
Even with gondies and full fuel it has Very good rolling ability Will turn with a spit pretty good for the first few turns after that look for a way to get some seperation & position.
Play with the throttle usually between 3/4 and 100%.

I seem to have better luck hitting a target when in a turnfight and bogie is climbing. so I actually try to get a little lower then the guy Im fighting

Against...spits be patient. Even when at a disadvantage if your patient and pay attention to your SA and fly smart its agile enough to avoid most attacks untill the bogie driver makes a mistake or overshoots.

On full tanks has good range which can be made into great range and will retain speed when flying level at reduced RPM settings (I've rarely ever run out of gas).

Octavius · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2005, 08:55:57 PM »

Get rid of the gondolas.

Tarmac · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2005, 09:04:14 PM »

I fly the 109g2 most of the time, but the style between the two is pretty much the same. Use the 109's climb rate to stay slightly above the target until your enemy gives you an opening for a shot. By "slightly above," I mean just high enough that he can't go nose up and zoom you for a shot without getting himself roped. While you're up there, it's best to be spiral climbing to keep him in your view and forcing him to burn E by turning with you (he'll burn a lot of E if he tries to pull hard on the turn for a lead shot).

When you see your opportunity, use rudder and ailerons to roll over quickly and make your pass and then get above him again. If you think you can hang with him, chop your throttle and saddle up. I generally carry gondolas, which means I don't saddle up often since most of the MA's planes will turn better than I do. If I blow the shot I get above him and set up again. If you don't carry gondies, saddling up is more of an option as I can turn with pretty much anything that's not a dedicated turner (spit5, japanese planes, hurris).

109's have lots of rudder authority, so don't be afraid to use rudder to set up shots, burn E, or roll.

humble · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2005, 09:23:10 PM »

The problem with "being patient" with spitties is now they are double superior. You cant out run them and you cant out fight them. Basically to beat a spit you need to beat the other guy....very very badly. Phish owns me in a same plane duel...but after 2 fights spitV vs 109 he had no real chance at all. He simply didnt have the "tools" vs a "OK" 1 on 1 stick....I just dont see the 109F as having any real chance in that match up...now with hurricanes, zekes etc I think it has a speed edge which makes it a much better ride...and with E or alt the rudder authority makes it dealy in the vertical obliques...but it needs to end the fight BEFORE the spitty equalizes E state IMO...

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2005, 09:55:14 PM »

Only true advantage the 109F has over the SpitV is roll rate. If you get it into a scissors match you can often force an overshoot and get your shot. You want to be close though, as the ballistics arent nearly the same as those Hispanos on the Spit. Also, you only have two pea-shooters and one cannon. Centrally mounted or not, you need to be close for them to be effective, and you need to watch your shots if you have to lead the target. Use the MGs to find your "sweet spot", then blast em with the cannon. Sparingly, one second bursts only.

Also remember that the Franz has a teeny tiny gas tank. Take plenty of fuel.

RedTop · « **Reply #10 on:** June 08, 2005, 10:06:13 PM »

I appreciate the help guys. I really like the plane. I REALLY have to get used to that compression thing tho. Whewwww. Rudder thing. Hmmmmmmm I think I need to get pedals. May help with a more steady input. Lil jerky with my X45.

Anyway...thanks again.

Anymore suggestions are welcome.

6GunUSMC · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2005, 11:53:19 PM »

RedTop

Lose the gondolas and bear in close, (Unless you plan on nuking buffs) It turns well but loses E quickly. Fortunately it has plenty of WEP time. This is a great plane if you have a wingman, in the usual MA environment you're gonna have a tough time flying this plane with any success. Interesting enough this plane performs quite well in the 15-22K range and climbs almost 4K/Min at 10K and just over 3.5K/Min with WEP at 15K. As far as your rudder/compression probs, these are worse over 20K anytime you have to dive, think THROTTLE first!

I flew this bird nearly exclusively for 2 tours quite awhile back. It is a killing machine but requires a lot of practice.

Good luck, hope this helps!

Saintaw · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2005, 12:54:40 AM »

In my great suckyness, I've managed to get a 25/5 K/d this tour (wish I had more time

) So yes... it must be a great plane indeed

Eagler is one of the guys I see flying it most of the time, I'd listen to the dude...

Cooley · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2005, 01:51:52 AM »

I dont fly it much these days,,,,,but i'll always give wtg's to anyone landin kills in it

Years ago back in WB's2 it was awesome,,as there was a rolling plane set
, and for about 5 days of the tour, the Franz, 38F and Spit5 were the best planes, probably my fav part of the tour, and the 109f was better then the spit5 at vertical acm

JB73 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2005, 03:33:07 AM »

hmmm... im the 190 guy, but i do fly the 109F when i fly a 109

think of it like this,.... you can catch a pony sometimes, but a spit V can catch you other times.

it is a fast knife fighter, that can turn decent

you will stay with a spit 9, but might not turn inside it.

you will be out-turned by a spit V, and with the new boost to the spit V he can hang with you in the vert in many cases.

that's it, think of it like a spit 9. with lesser guns.

this is all with OUT the gondolas, with them, fuhgaddaboutit, you are dog meat