Cougar VS CH Combatstick + Throttle

[68DevilM]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Ok thanks all, lots to think about and consider
 

dont forget thrusmaster makes some good stick too

[straffo]

look at this Willbus (on page 2 there is a small hand prothesys ) http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=250&hl=

Btw each time someone buy a Cougar God kill a Ta152 !

[JB73]

Originally posted by 68DevilM
dont forget thrusmaster makes some good stick too

thats the cougar we are discussing
LOL

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by 68DevilM
dont forget thrusmaster makes some good stick too

At one time I would have agreed with you, but everything I've seen them make in the last few years just plain sucks.  

Btw, I dont use the fancy CH Fighterstick that alot of these guys are using, I have an old Flightstick Pro.  It only has 4 buttons and one hat, but everything is reachable, the stick is heavy and fits good in my hand.  I wish I still had the throttle, I sold mine a few years ago when I wasnt flying anymore and needed the cash.  The extra buttons on the throttle made up for the lack on the stick.  Still, I prefer it to the fancier Fighterstick.  Of course all my stuff is still analog lol.

[JB73]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Got a X? X45?

Anybody know anything about the X52?

x45 is great, thought many complain about the throw of the rocker for the rudder.

if you have pedals it is no problem then.

i use my rocker for to look behind me better.

some have complained that the x45 hat switches wear out, i never had a problem and used the stick heavily for almost 2 years.

i hear the x52 has some odd button / rotary placements, i felt it at the store once, just for a few seconds, and it was "different"

run to best buy and check it out.

[FOGOLD]

Wilbus, the CH sticks are virtually the same size as the Cougar, so don't make a decision betwen the two on that issue. The only thing is, as I said, you can map the CHl hat switch to the throttle which saves all that stretching.

Stretching for the hat was a real issue for me on the Cougar, even though I have medium/large hands.  If there's one control that has to be easy and intuitive it's the view.

If you have the $ the choice is between CH, Cougar and probably the x52 of which I have no experience.

[Reschke]

I couldn't stand the way the CH throttle moves and that is why I tossed mine back into the sea of happy hands and went back to my old F-16 FLCS/TQS setup before I got the Cougar setup.

[Wilbus]

Ok, still looking at both of them. Read a review  comparing the X52 and CH HOTAS setup.

This is a quote from it:

For example, the X52, while it generally accepts more accurate inputs than its cheaper cousin the Cyborg Evo, isn't a particularly accurate stick. It's not something I noticed at first not even later on, but after spending several weeks switching between the X52 and FighterStick Pro, it's noticeable. It's not that the X52 has become spikey, it just wasn't as precise to start with. There's a particularly annoying tendency to ignore the first few movements of tilting the stick forward, and rumor has it that this is actually a design issue rather than a problem with a batch of sticks. This isn't as noticeable in jet simulators, but when I'm flying World War II aircraft and my only armament is my forward-facing guns, the joystick has to be damn accurate for me to hit anything. There's little doubt in my mind that the X52 is more responsive than the Cyborg Evo, but it quite simply pales in comparison to the CH offerings.

That kind of rules out the X52 IMO as the biggest problem with my current stick (TM Fox 2 Pro) is near the center where it is far from as accurate as I want it, this is a problem I've had with all sticks.

Last time I felt the Combatstick I must say I didn't quite like the feel, not enough tension and difficult to reach different buttons.

As noted in the link Straffo posted these controls are most likely (could actually say ARE) made to have somewhat bellow you arm, not on a desk. Will have to come up with a solution there... guess a prothesis could be made for either stick, if needed, though.

More inputs welcome.

Straffo, pics of that prothesis would be great, also, can you secify the "pathetic" feeling you got?

[straffo]

You know I'm like you a former glider and ultra-light pilot and the cougar is so far away from the sensation I had IRL that I don't consider it worth the price.

The real fun start when you put a cougar owner in a real plane for the 1st time
It's the same difference IMO between making love with your girl and raping her  

[Rolex]

I only handled a Cougar demo on display at a store, but the cold steel certainly looked and felt cool. I did a lot of research and tried many sticks also. I went for the CH setup (Combat Stick, Throttle and Pedals).

The problem with the reach issue on buttons is that a real stick is between your legs and low - not sitting on a desktop. That puts your wrist in a different position than it would be in reality.

I have no data to back up the following. It is only a theory, but I hope you don't experience what I've gone through with CH if you decide to get it. All 3 of the CH devices I bought were faulty from the start.

- The stick spiked horribly on back pressure.
- The rudders had uneven pressure and random spiking without any input.
- The throttle had random spiking.

CH Products has a good quality reputation, but it may just be in the US. They may be shipping the quality rejects or repackaging the returned products for shipment outside the US to foreign distributors. They would not be the first company to do such.

CH was not too interested in helping or replacing the products. They kept telling me that it was my fault (somewhow) and I should talk to the local distributor - who told me to contact CH Products direct.

I tricked the distributor into replacing the pedals (which work fine now), but I had to buy another stick. It was cheaper to buy another stick than ship it back to CH Products for repair. The new stick is from a US distributor and shipped from the US. It works beautifully.

I'm still using the throttle and have learned to live with it. The throttle is too light (it will slide all over your table) and the motion is a little too 'cheap plastic' feel for me, but its better than no throttle and the buttons/hats work fine.

I don't use the software since it is unecessary for AH. It only adds a slight input delay and AH handles CH set up wonderfully through stick mapping.

Good luck.

[Wilbus]

Thanks Rolex, I've never heard any such things about CH before although my first stick ever, CH Flightstick, also bought on the European market, spiked quite early on so you may (or may not) be right.

I agree all too much with you about the cheap plastic feeling which is another reason I've never considered CH again although they do have an outstanding reputation.

Straffo, you're right, only way to get that kind of heavy force on the stick is to fly real fast in our small beautifull gliders

I don't want god to kill a Ta152... but...

[Grits]

In the old days I used nothing but TM gear, I got all their stuff as it came out, FCS, WCS, RCS, F-16 FLCS. When I started AH a year and a half ago, I looked at the Cougar and decided I would not waste my time and money on something that cost so much and then needed to be worked on. I went with the full CH USB setup, it works and feels just like new after almost two years and I have not regreted it once. Yes the spring tension is light, but I feel once you get used to it, that makes it easier to make those tiny movements adjusting for gunnery.

[Silat]

I put O rings in my CH stick to get it more like Tmaster. I also put velcro on the bottom of my throttle and stick to keep them from sliding around. I had a lot of left over velcro from the time I made velcro gloves:)

[wrag]

Your CH gear is sliding around?

Mine doesn't.

Don't need anything to hold it in place.

The throttle doesn't move at all.

The stick occasionally gets moved some but that come when I push it past it's stop trying to get a little more out of it in say a turn LOL

The peds I have are the older rocker analog type but they work great.

Still have some TM Elite peds but I hate those things!  The springs are so stiff the entire unit moves and I would get very little or even NO rudder movement out of em.

[Ghosth]

Wilbuz

Ebay, get yourself a pair of Prec 2 usb's.

That way you'll have a spare.

From everything I've been hearing, (and I hear a LOT about jsticks in the TA)

General opinion is if you liked MS sticks your best bet is the x52.

If your going to go wtih the cougar go for the full mods with hall sensors. And its still going to be a heavy POS, but it will fly.

Last, you & I should get together, design and market a new stick.  
Something lightwieght, sensitive, easy to lock twist handle in case you have rudders.
Good hat switches, and add on throttle with all the bells & whistles. (Split throttle perhaps)