Author Topic: "Social Justice" type SF Bay Area 20yr old leftist joins taliban...........  (Read 5895 times)

Offline Toad

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"Social Justice" type SF Bay Area 20yr old leftist joins taliban...........
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2001, 06:44:00 AM »
Yeah, Vulcan, good idea.

Maybe we could get them all to hold a "stop the bombing" rally at the approach end of one of the runways at Kandahar airport...pretty sure we have published GPS coordinates for those.   :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline gavor

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"Social Justice" type SF Bay Area 20yr old leftist joins taliban...........
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2001, 08:49:00 PM »
And what would happen if we were all punished for the stupid things we did when we were young and impressionable?

Caught stealing at 17? Well obviously your a hardened criminal already, off with your hand in into jail boy.

Does this attitude make me a leftist marxist commo pinko labour radical hippy fediddleer? I dont know, my head hurts and i need an asprin.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2001, 11:14:00 PM »
Do you honestly compare this to shoplifiting in your head?

If you do, it might not make you a leftist but it sure makes you an idiot.

Offline Tyro48

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« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2001, 11:32:00 PM »
Since this isn't a declared war the individual can't be tried for treason!Does he deserve to be tried you bet, but let the system work, vigilante politics isn't going to solve anything. As to left or right political points of view seems if either were what they say they are the country wouldn't be in the position it's in, go back to the 1933 congressional record and if your patient sift your way through that and you'll see why we have been in Kuwait, Afganistan etc. America is in receivership to the International banking community and there in is the driving force behind all of this, this dood just managed through youth and maybe a little religious  wnadering to get himself mixed up in a real world wide mess, but let the system test his case as you would hope the system will test yours if you should ever find yourself on that side of it!

Offline gavor

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"Social Justice" type SF Bay Area 20yr old leftist joins taliban...........
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2001, 11:42:00 PM »
Do the subtelties of an analogy eldude you, Grunherz? Perhaps I should state it in another way. I really dont care about your rabid interest in politics but I do think it is a bit harsh to condemn a young man for making a stupid decision.
Sure, if he's really trained up to be a terrorist and he truely intends to commit terrorist acts then thats different. Maybe he doesnt, how do you know what his intentions are or what he was hoping to acheive by joining the taliban.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make was not to comdemn someone without thinking the situation through first. There was no reason to call me an idiot.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2001, 12:07:00 AM »
First of all it doesnt have to be a "declared war" to try somebody op on treason, all it takes is fighting against Americans. If that wont stick there is always sedition, or just letting him loose in the middle of any US city,(except The Peoples Republic of Berkely) , especially New York.

Gavor, Im sorry to be offending you but strike me as quite naive and uninformed.

And your analogy is uttely inappropriate, no matter how you try to justify it.

Yes why would he join the Taliban??? Good question.

Geee I think it was it help educate Afghan women, no I dont think it was it.

Maybe he wanted to spread goodwill about islam to the people in afghanistan, uhhmm no thats not likely Taliban has religious police that kill people if they dont pray....

So why did he join the taliban, then...

Well he has addmited to fighting alongside other Islamic terrorists in the Kashmir region of India.

So we know hes allready militarly invaded other countries.

He admitted to being trained to fight and kill in Al Qeada camps, where saw Bin Laden many times. Again his own words.

He said he supported the Sept 11 attacks, he said they were a "good thing".

He was in Konduz along with other Al Qaede extermists who shot the Afghan Taliban if they tried to surrender.

His words, Gavor.

Now you wanna cover him by the fact that hes "only" 17 years old. Well first of all he is 20 years old and not 17. He only joined Taliban in the past year, so he made the decision as an adult. He is accountable.

By your standard does it mean you can do anything before a certain age and not be "condemned", when is one to be held accountable 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 30. When?


Look, I hate the little diddlyer beyond belief and I honestly think he should be shot right now. I understand that others might not  have my feelings to the same extent. If you are like that just read the things he freely addmited to reporters on camera.


He is a bad person who made bad decisions and he must be held accountable for his acts.

Offline easymo

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« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2001, 12:13:00 AM »
You liberals make it sound like this guy is 4 years old.  He was old enough to vote 2 years ago.

  If all he did was wondered off to explore some exotic religion.  I would agree with you.  But when a man picks up a gun, everything changes.  There are consequences.  I was a teenager when I went to war.  Most of the people around me were late teen, early twenties.  The "just a dumb kid" routine just wont wash.

Sorry grun. posted the same time you did
.

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2001, 12:34:00 AM »
Quote
Origingally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Again Karnak if you are a liberal type stop being so afraid and annoyed at what im angry about, its not directed at you. It directed at extremist leftists who are trying to harm our country and who hate our country. toejam they are actually doing the most damage to the liberals and demicrats as they are trying hard as hell to radicalize that aspect of American political life.
You as an apparently dedicated liberal should be far more concerned about them than me, they are against real liberal values you seem to love, they are abslolutists and extremists with a strong aouthoritarian bent.

cc that, GRUNHERZ.

I just wish that there was a different word that you could use to describe them than "leftist".  I do see where you are coming from, even if I don't really agree with what you are saying, at least not with the strength that you are saying it.

To the rest of you,

I'm Liberal, but that doesn't mean that I think this guy shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.  I think that we should all be responsible for our actions, and his were piss poor.  I don't see any "extenuating circumstances" here.
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Offline Tyro48

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« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2001, 01:00:00 AM »
Grun! Ya remember Vietnam and a little girl named Jane Fonda well bud she wasn't tried for treason (even though she caused the death of Americans and liked AAA batteries) just like this gent won't be because it wasn't a declared war just like this situation! This situation is a fight against an idea and you can't decalre a war against that, constitution is pretty clear on what Congress and the Pres can declare a war on, mark my words he may be tried but it won't  be for treason now if Bush has it his way it will be a Military Tribunal then the young man is gonna have a hard hard road to hoe, and after we have all the facts ( repeat after we have all the facts we can get our hands on ) and he is or isn't found guilty then let the cards fall where they may for him. And then again if he is tried for treason then we need to re-visit the Jane Fonda thing and ask some hard questions about justice in America!

Offline Tyro48

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« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2001, 01:08:00 AM »
Damn Grun must be hard on yas there what with Harve Milktoast, Diane Feinstein, and then get two lawyers in the White House one whos college papers were locked up because they were so far left it threated all the Dems? California has it good points didnt spend much time in SF though just worked there for 8 years and then moved back to the high country, but relax a bit bud if we all keep our heads up we'll get this worked out!

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2001, 01:14:00 AM »
Like I said if treason doesnt work out we can get him for sedition which is easier to prove and IIRC also carries a death penalty.

You see Im not at all worried about little Johnny, hes dead one way or another. Either he gets the death penalty, gets killed in prison by other inmates or gets killed on the streed by the population. Any way you cut it we get a happy positive result.

He is a bad man and he will be held accountable.

Offline gavor

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« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2001, 07:35:00 PM »
Just so i look totally stupid I'm going to do something rare for a human being and admit I was wrong. I wrote the last two posts at work and I'll admit that I was poorly imformed, i only read the one article and I didnt read it properly. I see your point totally and while I still stand by what I said, I dont think it applies here anymore. Sorry to have forced you to write such a long reply, it's now saturday morning and i've thought it over a bit.

I dont feel quite as strongly as you do I dont hate the guy, i feel a bit sorry for him but I agree that he deserves what he gets. I guess I find it harder to hate him for treason because im not from the US. If perhaps it was an Aussie that did the same thing and lets say that he then killed some coalition soldiers, I can see that i'd be as angry as you.

Dont think that just cos im backing down now means that i dont like to argue   :). I just dont like arguing pointlessly.

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Gavor ]

Offline easymo

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« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2001, 02:56:00 PM »
I would like to revisit the "fonda thing" for a moment.

  I have come to consider fonda as a tribute to Vietnam era veterans. She was dispised by million of these men.  They were all familiar with firearms.  Many were experienced in their use against human targets.  In spite of this, ms. fonda is still walking around alive.  This says far more about the honor, decency, and faith in the constitution, of the Vietnam era vet, then it does about fonda herself.

  Imagine how long a high profile celebrity in Iraq would last, publicly supporting the Israelis.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2001, 04:29:00 PM »
Jeeezus, Easymo; when I traded in my fatigues for levis I made a decision to never stand in line again.

When Hanoi Jane dies and the vets come to piss on her grave; I may make an exception; but frankly, that potatos life is not worth a single vets.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.