Author Topic: Insensative Euros Protest  (Read 1309 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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Insensative Euros Protest
« on: June 18, 2005, 07:43:01 PM »
OK before anyone thinks this is a troll, the title is just an attention grabber.

Q:  Gunslinger, do you really think Euros are insensative?
A:  No, I don't I just wanted to bring to light the indifferent stances on common issues in the US

Q:  Gunslinger,  isn't foxnews completly bigoted and biased.
A:  Read the article yourself and think for yourself.

Q:  Gunslinger, are you for or against this issue.
A:  I like the answer that John Kerry gave at the presidential debate right before he brought up VP Dick Chenys daughter in that "we are all God's children".  I would support laws and legislation to allow same sex couples to enjoy the same rights as married couples in respects to a common law union of sorts but I would not support re-defining mariage.

I hate the fact that when ANYONE has a stance or opinion that doesnt coinside with the gay/liberal agenda we are labled as bigots/facists/homophobes/ect.  Our opinions should be respected just like anyone elses or no common grounds will ever be reached.  ok there's my rant now for the article.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,159978,00.html
Hundreds of Thousands Protest Gay Marriage Bill in Madrid

Saturday, June 18, 2005



MADRID, Spain  — Hundreds of thousands of people led by 20 Roman Catholic bishops and conservative opposition leaders clogged downtown Madrid on Saturday in a demonstration against the Socialist government's bill to legalize gay marriage and permit gay couples to adopt children.

Chanting in favor of the family and children's rights, the demonstration, called by a lay Catholic group, the Spanish Forum for the Family, was held in a festive atmosphere with participants waving colorful balloons and Spanish and regional flags.

A half hour into the demonstration, organizers were claiming 1.5 million people had attended. But media eyewitnesses found the estimate difficult to believe, with most putting the crowd size at some 500,000. No police figure was immediately available.

Madrid's Cardinal Jose Antonio Maria Rouco Varela (search) was among 20 bishops at the head of the rally, along with the opposition Popular Party's leaders, Angel Acebes and Eduardo Zaplana.

Earlier Saturday, Deputy Socialist Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega (search) defended the law and accused protesters of discrimination, saying their actions meant they wanted the rights they enjoyed to be denied to others. The new law "does not oblige anyone to do anything they don't want to do," she said.

Although the protest was backed by Spain's Episcopal Conference (search) and the Popular Party, there appeared to be serious divisions over the issue within both groups. Neither the bishops' conference president, Ricardo Blazquez, nor Popular Party leader Mariano Rajoy were present.

Also noticeable by their absence were the Popular Party's leaders in Madrid — regional government president Esperanza Aguirre and city mayor Alberto Ruiz Gallardon.

The gay marriage bill is expected to become law in a matter of weeks. It has been passed by the lower chamber of Parliament and will be voted on next week by the Senate.

Opinion polls indicate a majority of Spaniards support the bill.

But demonstrators were angry at what they called the degradation of the institution of marriage and the fact that gay couples may adopt.

"Marriage can only be between man and a woman," said Agustin Cruz, 41. "It's a divine and natural law. Marriage of homosexuals is a lie. You have to call things by their name. The first lie begins when you start calling queers 'gays.' They're queers, it's not an insult, it's the definition of that race of people."

Banners reading "FamilyMan+Woman" and "A mother and father for every child" could be seen up and down the demonstration, which was attended by families and individuals of all ages. Handfuls of priests and nuns mixed with lay protesters.

Chants for Socialist Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero to resign resounded continuously.

"This demonstration is the people's response to the government's provocations," said Fr. Jose Ramon Velasco. We're not against homosexuals but allowing them to marry degrades matrimony.

"And they shouldn't have the right to adopt because if those children turn out to be homosexual, who will be to blame, the government?"

Velasco compared the bill to the beginnings of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

"Back then the majority of people also backed Hitler just like the majority back this law," he said. "I'm serious, give it time and it will destroy the moral fiber of Spain and the West."

The Bishops' Conference last week said the gay marriage bill was the biggest challenge to the church and its values in 2,000 years.

It was the first time the church has given such a display of anti-government activism in more than 20 years.

Some 500 buses transported people to the protest from around country while special flights brought people from the Canary Islands and Spain's enclaves in Morocco.

The gay marriage bill is one of several controversial measures introduced by Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's Socialist government since it ousted the Popular Party from office in elections in March, 2004. Others included withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq, halting an education bill that would have made religion obligatory in schools and scrapping a national water plan that envisaged hundreds of dams and major water transfer construction projects.

The demonstration forced a complete halt to above-ground traffic in most of central Madrid

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2005, 07:49:26 PM »
Just a question,

Does it realy matter what homosexuals choose to do as long as they don't do it to us?

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2005, 08:03:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
Just a question,

Does it realy matter what homosexuals choose to do as long as they don't do it to us?


well according to 100,000+ spaniards and I'd say close to 60% of Americans yes it does.

Just my opinion, when you start redifining stuff to fit your idealogical agenda you do more harm then good.  The whole PC movement of the late 80s and 90s is as close to thaught control as you're going to get in todays day and age.

If we allow everything to be legal for the sake of "does it really bother us" what do we really do to society as a whole and future.

I may not accept what they (gays) do in their personal life but I don't try and stop them either.  In that sense I beleive myself to be tolerent.  When they want to redefine what I have with my wife that's when it does start to effect me.  

like I said earlier these are just my opinions.  It looks like they are shared with alot of spainish people as well.

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2005, 08:08:17 PM »
MMM you have a point.

Though whether the two gay guys who live next door to me for example say, have some ceremony to say they are married actualy affects my wife and I's marriage I doubt.

The Spanish thing doesn't suprise me as its a Catholic country.  I don't have a lot of affinity with Roman Catholicism myself.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2005, 08:32:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
MMM you have a point.

Though whether the two gay guys who live next door to me for example say, have some ceremony to say they are married actualy affects my wife and I's marriage I doubt.

The Spanish thing doesn't suprise me as its a Catholic country.  I don't have a lot of affinity with Roman Catholicism myself.


nore do I.  Like I said I don't have a problem with gays having a comitment ceremony or haveing a Civil Union.  To call it a marriage, at least to me, changes what a marraige is.  No it does not directly effect my marriage but it does redefine it.  Either way law makers shouldnt be devoting time to apease the fringe groups and make these kind of laws IMHO.

Offline mora

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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2005, 09:47:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
nore do I.  Like I said I don't have a problem with gays having a comitment ceremony or haveing a Civil Union.  To call it a marriage, at least to me, changes what a marraige is.  No it does not directly effect my marriage but it does redefine it.  Either way law makers shouldnt be devoting time to apease the fringe groups and make these kind of laws IMHO.

It should be up to the religious group, not the goverment. All couples should have egual rights, no matter if "married" or not.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2005, 10:21:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mora
It should be up to the religious group, not the goverment. All couples should have egual rights, no matter if "married" or not.


what couples don't have equal rights?

and what does religion have to do with any of this?

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2005, 10:25:34 PM »
Mora,

Don't confuse civil law with criminal law concepts. Marriage is a legal contractual situation with civil law ramifications.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2005, 12:05:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mora
All couples should have egual rights, no matter if "married" or not.


All couples should have the rights due them as individuals. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2005, 12:08:53 AM »
What are "rights"?

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2005, 12:32:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
What are "rights"?


That's kinda what I say.  But not really.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2005, 12:34:24 AM »
That's kinda what I don't understand. But not really.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2005, 01:24:03 AM »
What would prevent a man from marrying a dog?  a gerbil.....a goat?

I cant think of any reason why a man should be prevented from marrying anything he wants.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2005, 01:29:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
What would prevent a man from marrying a dog?  a gerbil.....a goat?


Sanity.

Offline Silat

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« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2005, 01:51:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
well according to 100,000+ spaniards and I'd say close to 60% of Americans yes it does.

Just my opinion, when you start redifining stuff to fit your idealogical agenda you do more harm then good.  The whole PC movement of the late 80s and 90s is as close to thaught control as you're going to get in todays day and age.

If we allow everything to be legal for the sake of "does it really bother us" what do we really do to society as a whole and future.

I may not accept what they (gays) do in their personal life but I don't try and stop them either.  In that sense I beleive myself to be tolerent.  When they want to redefine what I have with my wife that's when it does start to effect me.  

like I said earlier these are just my opinions.  It looks like they are shared with alot of spainish people as well.



You know Guns sometimes the majority is just plain wrong.
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