Author Topic: Spitfans (Read 1331 times)

FaliFan · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2005, 07:56:26 AM »

Let's not turn this into a flame war, but your logic of "indirect responsibility" is flawed in the extreme. Everyone is responsible for his or her own actions, period. By your logic Britain is to blame for the blitz on London since Britain declared war on Germany.

In my opinion the deliberate killing of civilians is a war crime ... NO MATTER who started it or how just the cause. However the sentiment expressed in at the end of this movie is that of honouring the RAF that fought against the "murdering" V2's, while the same RAF was "murdering" even more civilians.

Kweassa · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2005, 08:17:50 AM »

Think of it this way Falifan.

Everyone is entitled to his individual fantasies about right and wrong.

Personally, I don't agree about those sentiments either. There are a lot of cool filmmakers in the IL2 community, and sometimes their view of history is biased.

But let's not try to get that in the way, and just enjoy the film as it is. Just think of it as the Discovery channel version of wartime history.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2005, 08:37:03 AM »

History is THE most biased thing we have.

History is always written to suite the ones in power at the day of writing.

If you look at your own countries history education. What does it teach, what does it leave out and how does it teach what it teaches. Then compare it to another countries history education, it will be different. Even the things both teach will be viewed a bit differently.

This is why one must constantly search for more information and use multiple channels of information and then weigh them in together when one forms an oppinion. Same for history and current time news (history in making).

When it comes to war. War is a biatch. War is horrible. War is unfair.

Discussing who is to blame for what is totally pointless. Killing civilians is ALWAYS wrong. You can never justify a act of killing a civilian by saying "they did it first".

But war does always have civilian casualties. There is no way around it. No matter how hard you try it will still happen. Just because it will happen you cant accept it. Everyone in a conflict should always go out of their way to not hurt civilians.

It doesnt matter if its a german V2 rocket over london or a US nuke over hiroshima. Both are deliberate attacks on civilian targets and hence crims against humanity.

Tex

FaliFan · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2005, 10:28:24 AM »

Let's just drop it, I'm sorry I brought it up. It was a nicely done movie.

Kurfürst · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:46:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
What version of Il-2 is it?
And that pacific fighters variant, any good?

I never got hooked too well on Il-2, always found it too... mushy.

In my first dogfight though, I fought one vs five, pinged them all and then disappeared into a cloud, hehe.

Il-2 is the best ever since it came out... and now with the 4.01 patch out, it`s flight model is better than anything - it`s from the upcoming BoB sim from Oleg. Inertia and torque are very nicely modelled.

Plus the sheer number of the flyable planeset... all beutifully modelled. You cant say no to that. Entire 109 (E-4 to K-4), 190(A-4 to Ta152), Soviet line, P-51B/C/D variants, with and without high boost, Spit V, VLF and IXLF/HF, clipped, normal, extended wings. Hurris. P40. P-47Ds... P-38 versions. Me 262, P-80, He162, even the Gotha. All the Japanese stuff. Even prototypes and projects.

Plus there are half a dozen free online wars with dynamic campaign effected by the players.

I cant figure out how AH is still around.

Kurfürst · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:56:35 AM »

... and oh, they got Spit VIII as well.

Angus · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2005, 12:48:14 PM »

So, which boxed issue to buy? drool

Or can I download a playable demo?
Which episodes????

Anyway, when I was flying in the FB, I found AHII vastly superior.
Just rattled around in a real aircraft the other day, - the feel was definately in HTC's favour.

Kweassa · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2005, 12:59:00 PM »

The roll inertia in 4.01m sucks.

Other than that, I guess it's ok.

Flyboy · « **Reply #23 on:** June 23, 2005, 01:08:49 PM »

i must say im not impressed.

soundtrack is good, the blending of historical photos is awesome, and so is the text slides, really get you pumped up.

but then the "movie" itself.... 4 spits taking off, bombing an undefended (no cap) strat ( lol sounds familiar). 1 spit is lost to flack rest RTB safely.

im sorry, thats nothing special.. kinda borring.

graphics are really nice btw, wish we had those clouds\ cockpits.
exterior of the plane isnt much better then AH

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 23, 2005, 02:33:03 PM »

I have more feel and view in AH.
109's seems to turn like zero's not like AH

real downside is the view system i lose many planes out of sight when they close.
and that s becoz they blur in to the graphics in a icon free enviroment.

still i think its challenging coz the p38 is a real underdog in it.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 23, 2005, 10:03:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Flyboy
i must say im not impressed.

soundtrack is good, the blending of historical photos is awesome, and so is the text slides, really get you pumped up.

but then the "movie" itself.... 4 spits taking off, bombing an undefended (no cap) strat ( lol sounds familiar). 1 spit is lost to flack rest RTB safely.

im sorry, thats nothing special.. kinda borring.

graphics are really nice btw, wish we had those clouds\ cockpits.
exterior of the plane isnt much better then AH

LOL tell that to the 602 pilots who flew those Big Ben missions. It was replicating a fairly dangerous mission flown by those guys Flyboy.

One of the pilots, Raymond Baxter, who actually flew the missions was sent a tape of the film and thought it very realistic and couldn't wait to show it to his family.

I guess I'll go with his opinion on how good it was

Dan/CorkyJr

Kweassa · « **Reply #26 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:17:00 PM »

Still Guppy, Flyboy does have a point.

It was a hazardous mission and I'm sure it had great meaning to those who participated in it. But speaking from a purely cinematic/dramatic perspective... it's not that spectacular of a movie.

14 minutes of playtime.. long narratives in the beginning and the end... and the rest 10 minutes of the film is basically take off, fly, bomb, land.

The Raf662 Sqadron of the IL2/FB community has some of the better movies I've seen, if you're interested in them.

http://raf662.com/

Guppy35 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:24:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Still Guppy, Flyboy does have a point.

It was a hazardous mission and I'm sure it had great meaning to those who participated in it. But speaking from a purely cinematic/dramatic perspective... it's not that spectacular of a movie.

14 minutes of playtime.. long narratives in the beginning and the end... and the rest 10 minutes of the film is basically take off, fly, bomb, land.

The Raf662 Sqadron of the IL2/FB community has some of the better movies I've seen, if you're interested in them.

http://raf662.com/

Guess cause I knew the story, it really sucked me in then

Something about the drama building. It reminded me of a frame in an old AW scenario where I GL'd 602. We were withdrawl cover so my two flights of Spit IXs were coming in over the coast as the bombers and escorts were coming out. It was the first really immersive moment I'd had in a flight sim as I was in the cockpit for that one. 190s flashing by, my wingman sticking with me as we cleared a low on fuel P47 and 'listening' to the radio chatter as we tried to get the bombers out. 109s and 190s starting to make life difficult for my wing and I, but then I look up and see a flight of 4 Spits crossing above and it's my FL and his boys. They roll on in and we clear out the LW boys before racing out over the channel for home with our job finally done.

The film made me remember that again. Good stuff

Dan/CorkyJr

Kurfürst · « **Reply #28 on:** June 24, 2005, 02:27:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
So, which boxed issue to buy? drool
Or can I download a playable demo?
Which episodes????

Well, FB + AEP + PF

Creates a nice junk of data on the HDD.

I am not sure, but the FB + AEP has the Mkv and IXs, I think PF has the mkVIII introduced. What makes PF worth apart from the pacific theatre and carrier landings, is the 4.01 patch which has much improved FM, as of course Kwaessa is totally and utterly wrong about the roll inertia. It`s the coolest thing about it, gives heavier planes a 'feel' as they start rolling more slowly. The 109e, spit, or p-38 with with heavy ailerons for example 'think a bit' after aileron is applied, but then their roll accelerates to a quite nice figure. imho excellent model of heavy aileron forces, ie. the pilot needs more time to deflect full aileron if he has to apply say 50 lbs force for it and not 20...

Given that PF 4.01 only has about 10-15% of the upcoming BOB`s flight engine... we are goind to be awfully impressed when it comes out!

The flyable Spit XIV and Tempest V are coming too, so is the Mossie and Ju88. But there seem to be a delay with the british 'ubers', they are 3rd party models. non-flyable tempest is available though, as is +25lbs RAF Mustang III.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #29 on:** June 24, 2005, 03:01:52 AM »

The view system of the Il-2 games is sooo bad that it totally ruins the game experience.

The game is sooo heavy on my computer that it aint even fun. Not the graphics they can be scaled down but the missions. It loads and stutters during the missions when stuff appears and disapears.

Some planes feel very questionable in their modelling. They all feel very similar in their flight characteristics.

Imho buying all thats needed FB+AEP+PF is not worth the money.

If you get it for free as a birthday gift from someone well then its ok to waste your HDD space with.

Tex