Author Topic: I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......  (Read 1263 times)

Offline lazs2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2005, 09:10:38 AM »
lute... not in Kalifornia or a lot of other states..

We used to be able to buy guns from individuals without any paperwork here.  Now, it has to go through a dealer and background check no matter what.

It has made it more expensive to buy a gun and more of a hassle.  It has not made any difference in crime or gun crime.

I am still waiting to hear how the guy in the story harmed anyone.

If he fired the gun in the backyard he broke some ordinances and should be punished as much as the guy with the barking dog.. maybe a little more.

If he threatened the police with a gun he should be jailed.

If he had an illegal machine gun then we need to change the law.

lazs

Offline beet1e

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2005, 09:12:41 AM »
See Rule #6
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 12:04:44 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline lazs2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2005, 09:19:28 AM »
You are kidding right beet?   How would what I have written be considered a troll?

Those are my beliefs.   Do you feel that domestic violence should be a reason to lose your gun rights.... oh wait... you don't have any rights...

do you feel that if a woman turns you in for "abusing her" that you deserve to lose any right including gun rights...

Why not lose your drivers licence too... angry women beaters are known road ragers.  let's nip it in the bud eh what old sport?

lazs

Offline beet1e

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2005, 09:33:12 AM »
Lazs, don't be obtuse. You said "what beetle did would be enough to ban you from owning firearms here forever"

Offline lazs2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2005, 09:46:54 AM »
It would beet... I don't agree with it but here... what you did or didn't do is enough to get you banned here forever... It matters not if it was true or not... only that she says it happens.

How do you like that?

lazs

Offline beet1e

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2005, 09:58:36 AM »
See Rule #6
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 12:07:17 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Yeager

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2005, 10:32:46 AM »
both you guys need to get a room....its getting steamy in here :eek:
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2005, 01:32:13 PM »
Lazs is right, and thats why I brought this up.  Not because this numbskull really needs defending, although I still dont see where he hurt anyone.  The problem is that the rules are too broad and vague.  Depending on who is doing the interpreting of the rules, you can be barred from EVER owning a gun again without ever actually doing anything wrong or doing drugs or being psychotic.  If someone THINKS any of those things about you, and convinces an official, you could end up losing your rights.  

Case in point.  Friend of mine is a painter by trade, made decent money until his ex-wife cleaned him out in their divorce.  So he moves to the big city for bigger paying jobs (he has custody of their daughter and really was left with next to nothing).  Lets just say he had enough guns around the house to defend it against a small army if necessary (all bought legally).  Where he was living at the time, he needed them.  He decided that he just wasnt cutting it as an independent contractor, so he hired on with a general that does lots of work year round and is always in need of good help.  So one evening after work, they stop at a bar and have a few beers.  My friend is telling some of the others about his ex-wife's antics, and how he was having a hard time raising their daughter alone.  One of the job bosses tells him about this 800 number you can call for free counseling and such.  Thinking its for parenting advice, my friend calls and makes an appointment with these people.  The person he goes to see is actually a clinical psychologist, and while she does give him some advice to help with raising his daughter, she is evaluating him.  She diagnoses him as suffering from mild situational depression (which is understandable in his circumstances), and prescribes him with some drug as a short term "boost".  He never filled the prescription, heck he wont even take aspirin unless he feels like his head is about to split open.  Between this point and the next, he bought or traded for maybe 4 or 5 guns (all legal, with paperwork).  So the next point is his deadbeat ex-wife tracks him down, and shes out of cash and has nowhere to go.  So she sponges off of him for a couple weeks before he tells her to get the **** out.  She leaves, and a couple days go by.  The cops come knocking on his door.  She's pressing charges against him for assault.  The daughter was there and can testify that the mother is full of ****, but in the meantime they have to go through an investigation.  The cops search the apt.  They catalog all the guns.  They do a history check.  Somehow (I'm guessing because it was a state run agency), the fact of his being treated at the "clinic" for depression turns up, and his prescription (the one he never filled).  They looked at the guns he had obtained since being treated, and arrested him on felony gun charges for lying on his application.  He didnt consider what he got as "treatment", it was just talking to someone at a clinic about his marriage and raising his daughter.  He never considered himself "depressed".  He thought the lady doctor was being nice by trying to give him the prescription.  The state says he was treated for a mental condition and is no longer allowed to own weapons.  Now, even the doctor who diagnosed him is willing to testify in court that his condition was situational, and should not bar him from owning a gun.  However, lying on the application is a federal crime, and the feds havent decided if THEY are going to charge him yet.  Bottom line here, the wrong judge in either court room could not only mean he never owns a gun again, but that he could go to jail when he never knowingly committed a crime.  

Now somebody tell me the rules work the way they are supposed to.

Offline lazs2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2005, 01:48:50 PM »
SOA... that is the kind of nightmare I fear.   I don't think beetle got my point but with what you said he might get a grasp of it.

Free men should be able to own firearms.   It is their right as human beings...  When you go to jail you are no longer free... when you get out.... you are a free man again.

The only people who want to make it complicated are the people who want the right taken away from everyone.... period..

lazs

Offline SOB

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2005, 01:58:32 PM »
Actually, I think the gun restrictions you face in Kalifornia are nuts, and the anti-"assault rifle" stuff is nonsense, but once you've been convicted of using a gun to facilitate a serious crime, you shouldn't be allowed to own one again.  Period.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2005, 02:12:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
SOA... that is the kind of nightmare I fear.   I don't think beetle got my point but with what you said he might get a grasp of it.

Free men should be able to own firearms.   It is their right as human beings...  When you go to jail you are no longer free... when you get out.... you are a free man again.

The only people who want to make it complicated are the people who want the right taken away from everyone.... period..

lazs


The problem I see is this.  We have allowed the argument to narrow down and focus on GUNS.  GUNS ARE NOT THE ISSUE.  The issue is a man's basic right to determine his own destiny and live his own life.  Guns can be used for self defense.  Matter of fact, thats about all a handgun is good for.  If I choose to arm myself because I feel threatened, that should be my right as a citizen.  If it turns out I used them in such a way that I took away or infringed on the rights of another, who wasnt doing me any harm, then I should be punished.  But as long as I was merely defending myself or my rights or my space or my property, thats as it should be.  Whether I used a gun, or a knife, or a bow, or my bare hands.  In this age of information, we have become used to specializations, and narrow focuses in order to better understand limited topics.  The "jack of all trades" is becoming an anachronism now (although still necessary IMO).  The problem is, like this gun issue, by narrowing the focus so much, we cannot see the forest anymore beause the trees are in the way.  The opposite view is dangerous too, if balance is lost.  When we allow people to focus the argument on small specific topics, we cant always defend against them properly.  Focus needs to be restored to the proper level, and everything looked at in perspective.

Offline beet1e

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2005, 02:47:50 PM »
See rule #4 (last time I am doing this, get over yourself)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 02:54:59 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline lazs2

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2005, 03:06:18 PM »
SOB... that sounds good except... It can be abused...Would you like to get a drunk driving and lose your licence for life?

What is a gun crime?  Did you point it at someone on your property but you were 20' further out than you thought?   Did you walk into a bar forgetting that you had your concealed carry on you?  Had one still in your luggage and forgot and tried to get on a plane?   Old lady pissed and called the cops saying you beat her up cause she knows how much you value your firearms rights and wants to "really get you"?

Maybe you robbed a bank..  does  that mean that once you have paid your dues to society you can never be trusted again with basic human rights?

Shoot out with the cops?  what the hell are you doing out and breathing?

If you can't be trusted with a gun then what the hell are you doing out amoung us?

If you are truly a violent person... why did they let you out so soon?

But... If they let you out... shouldn't you have a fresh start?  otherwise... whats the point?

Offline SOB

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2005, 03:16:29 PM »
I think there should be strict guidelines based in common sense (yeah, I know I'm dreaming here) on what constitutes a serious crime with a gun, and obviously the simple act of mistakenly carrying it conceled or bringing it to the airport would not be considered serious in my book.  And yeah, if you rob a bank with a gun, then tough ****, that's a right you gave up for life.

If I thought that we were capable of suitably punishing crimes, then maybe I'd see things a little differently.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline beet1e

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I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2005, 05:02:35 PM »
OK, Skuzzy. All cool. I love Lazs, Lazs loves me, and we both love you. What could be better?!