I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but......

[StarOfAfrica2]

When I first saw this, I was all for the authorities.  The guy had no permit, and was barred from owning guns.  Then as I got towards the end of the article, the real details of the situation start coming out and it made me wonder how many people in this country have had to give up their right to own guns (whether for protection or for collection, irrellevant) due to the way someone interprets an incident at some point in your life that goes on your permanent record?  Scary.  Of course, then I have to wonder after realizing the guy TOLD the cops everything he had down there, without blinking.  Maybe he is nuts?  lol

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke%5C25816.html

A Roanoke County man was convicted Monday of having a machine gun among the collection of high-power firearms he kept in the basement of his Verndale Drive home.

Samuel Morris Overstreet, 47, will face up to 20 years in prison when he is sentenced later in U.S. District Court in Roanoke.

It is illegal to possess a machine gun without a permit from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Not only did Overstreet not have a permit, he was also prohibited from owning any guns after being committed to a psychiatric hospital.

An ATF spokeswoman in Washington would not say how many machine gun permits the agency has issued in Virginia. Such information is proprietary, the spokeswoman said.

After a jury was seated Monday to hear Overstreet's case, he decided at the last minute to plead guilty to possessing an unregistered machine gun and having guns after being committed to a mental institution.

In December 2003, Overstreet called police to complain about trash cans being knocked over in his Northeast County neighborhood. A short time later, an officer stopped by to talk.

After the conversation turned to Overstreet's guns, authorities obtained a search warrant and discovered what Assistant U.S. Attorney Andrew Bassford called a "fairly extensive" arsenal in the basement. About 7,000 rounds of ammunition were also found.

In addition to about 20 rifles, shotguns and handguns, federal agents seized the illegal machine gun and two unregistered silencers.

Overstreet told authorities that the silencers allowed him to fire his guns in his back yard without the neighbors hearing anything, Bassford said.

Defense Attorney Melvin Hill described his client as an avid gun collector who spent nearly $20,000 on his hobby. Hill said he did not think his client posed a threat.

What Overstreet actually had in his home was a kit to convert a MAK-90, a semi-automatic rifle similar to an AK-47, into a fully automatic weapon. But the law made no distinction between the kit and a converted gun.

Although the charges Overstreet pleaded guilty to carry up to 20 years in prison, both Hill and Bassford said sentencing guidelines in the case will likely call for a lesser punishment.

In 1990, Overstreet was committed to a mental hospital following a police standoff at his home. The incident began when Overstreet called WROV-FM and asked the radio station to play "Eye of the Hurricane." He told disc jockeys the song reminded him of the death of his girlfriend, and that he was thinking about killing himself.

After barricading himself in his home for several hours, Overstreet was subdued by police.

[dedalos]

You are kiding right?  Some guy that had a stand off with the police, threatened to kill himself and fires his guns in his back yard is finnaly dealt with and you are saing what?  This is some violetion of his rights?  Oh, let me guess, he needs the 7000 rounds of ammo and the mashineguns for protection or for collecting?  Hopefully he does get the 20 years but I know he wont.  He will be let go until the authorities are proven right by some dead bodies.

Wana deffend yourself?   Whats wrong with 1 or 2 guns that you do not fire in your back yard?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by dedalos
You are kiding right?  Some guy that had a stand off with the police, threatened to kill himself and fires his guns in his back yard is finnaly dealt with and you are saing what?  This is some violetion of his rights?  Oh, let me guess, he needs the 7000 rounds of ammo and the mashineguns for protection or for collecting?  Hopefully he does get the 20 years but I know he wont.  He will be let go until the authorities are proven right by some dead bodies.

Wana deffend yourself?   Whats wrong with 1 or 2 guns that you do not fire in your back yard?

I didnt defend the guy per se.  I was just thinking how many folks have "nervous breakdowns" or the like, and see a shrink like they should.  That alone can bar you from owning weapons, if interpreted in such a manner.  

Besides, this guy didnt THREATEN to kill himself, he said to a radio DJ that he was depressed and THINKING about it.  It never says any cops were threatened in any way, or anyone else.  No one was ever in any danger but himself.  

As for the current situation, he's just plain stupid.  First that he kept collecting guns when he knew he wasnt supposed to have them.  Second that he would ever think to fire guns (even with a silencer) in a neighborhood like that.  Third, that he would invest in an illegal conversion kit.  And lastly that he would actually DISCUSS his collection with the police like they were guests at an NRA cocktail party!

So, I'm not defending him.  He's an idiot.  Probably deserves to go to jail too, although I dont think 20 years is realistic.  If they can show he endangered anyone by shooting guns in his yard, that should be taken into consideration, but otherwise I'd say no more than a few months.  What concerns me more is the thought of how easily someone else, who isnt an idiot or crazy, could lose their rights as well by earning the same labels (unjustly).  I mean, theres no appeal to this is there?  The questions on the forms are just bluntly (did you ever........... were you ever........ have you ever........ etc.) put references to history, not necessarily to a criminal past.

[john9001]

never ever talk to the police , they have only one job, to put everyone in jail.

[Toad]

Small point on the ammo. Case lots of .22 are 5000 rounds, 10 "cartons" of 10 50 round boxes.

The news would treat this as "5000 rounds of ammo" but it's unlikely anyone is going to take over the country, start a revolution or go on a major crime spree with a bunch of .22's.

There have been many times when, with two boys and a Dealer's License, I had at least "5000 rounds" of .22 in the safe.

I wish they'd be a bit more specific.

If he had 7000 rounds of linked .308 and a machine gun, that might perk my ears up a little. But maybe not; the whole point of having a machine gun is hosing off rounds. You can run through them pretty fast on a range with your buddies.

Ever see some guy at the range with an full-auto 9mm? 30 cases in the air at one time? Not even two clips and a box of 50 is gone.

It all depends.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I didnt defend the guy per se.  I was just thinking how many folks have "nervous breakdowns" or the like, and see a shrink like they should.  That alone can bar you from owning weapons, if interpreted in such a manner.  

Besides, this guy didnt THREATEN to kill himself, he said to a radio DJ that he was depressed and THINKING about it.  It never says any cops were threatened in any way, or anyone else.  No one was ever in any danger but himself.  

So, I'm not defending him.  He's an idiot.  Probably deserves to go to jail too, although I dont think 20 years is realistic.  If they can show he endangered anyone by shooting guns in his yard, that should be taken into consideration, but otherwise I'd say no more than a few months.  What concerns me more is the thought of how easily someone else, who isnt an idiot or crazy, could lose their rights as well by earning the same labels (unjustly).  I mean, theres no appeal to this is there?  The questions on the forms are just bluntly (did you ever........... were you ever........ have you ever........ etc.) put references to history, not necessarily to a criminal past.

This guy was involved in a police standoff.... lol He had a little more than a nervous breakdown. Exactly the kind of person I don't want owning firearms in the next state much less if he was my neighbor. Good riddance to dumb rubbish.

2)People who think about suicide and are talking about it are in a stage where they are are asking for help. It was a cry for help as much as it was a threat to commit it. But make no mistake, if you hole up in the house and refuse to come out when the cops come, then why should you have the right to own a gun? When you refuse to obey the police, when you pick and choose which laws you follow? He showed he was not responsible so he lost his right to carry. Is there really no appeal ever? Can an appeal not be applied for through the ATF or courts somehow?

[beet1e]

I'm too drunk to handle another gun thread. I'll check back tomorrow!

[stantond]

Yes,  I believe this article is a very good precident why someone who has been committed to a psychiatric hospital is not allowed to own guns.   That's a very good law.  Obviously he inherited the guns or acquired them before the 'instant background checks' were established in Virginia.  Just owning an unlicensed silencer is a serious offense, much less having a spare and a machine gun (or parts to make one).  

If memory servers, owning machine gun conversion parts was the charge the ATF used in the Waco, TX incident.  The ATF must have been watching the Branch Davidians (sp?) for some time before catching that purchase.  Not that the Branch Davidians were crazy per se, but a Christian church with an arsenal does fall into the 'crazy' category.



Regards,

Malta

[Toad]

"Brother Koresh, WWJD?"

"Why, son, he'd take this-a-here fully-auto M-16 and he'd put a full clip into them ATF agents! He didn't say, "turn the other cheek", he said "gimme another magazine!"

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Raider179
This guy was involved in a police standoff.... lol He had a little more than a nervous breakdown. Exactly the kind of person I don't want owning firearms in the next state much less if he was my neighbor. Good riddance to dumb rubbish.

2)People who think about suicide and are talking about it are in a stage where they are are asking for help. It was a cry for help as much as it was a threat to commit it. But make no mistake, if you hole up in the house and refuse to come out when the cops come, then why should you have the right to own a gun? When you refuse to obey the police, when you pick and choose which laws you follow? He showed he was not responsible so he lost his right to carry. Is there really no appeal ever? Can an appeal not be applied for through the ATF or courts somehow?

My only question on that would be to know the details of the "standoff".  The radio station obviously called the police.  They tracked him down somehow.  Did he actually hold off the police, or did they stand outside with their thumbs up their butts because they knew he had a gun in the house?  Even if he refused to come out, if he was depressed enough to think about suicide, he obviously wasnt thinking right at the time.  It could have been blown out of proportion.  The rest of this scenario shows me the man obviously doesnt have much good sense.  I really dont see that he's done anything that shows he means anyone any harm.  Do I think he should be allowed to keep guns?  Probably not, but I dont know the entire situation, I just have the one report to go off of.  

As to whether there's an appeal or not, from my reading of the ATF rules in the handbook I have, I'd say no.  Besides, the 4473 that the dealers have to use to sell you a gun dont ask if you've been cleared.  They just ask "Have you ever been treated for a mental condition..........." or "Have you ever been convicted of a crime..............".  The wording on the forms doesnt allow the dealers any leeway.  If he's truthful in answering the questions as they are worded, no one would ever be allowed to sell him a gun again.  Period.  Now this guy is a nut IMO.  A mild and harmless one, mostly, but I dont think he has the sense of responsibility to own guns.  But someone else who IS responsible enough can be excluded simply because of a past mistake or weak period.  Like depression.  Situational depression is very treatable, and should not be a bar from owning guns.

[-tronski-]

What was the machine gun?

 Tronsky

[stantond]

He did not have an assembled machine gun:

"What Overstreet actually had in his home was a kit to convert a MAK-90, a semi-automatic rifle similar to an AK-47, into a fully automatic weapon. But the law made no distinction between the kit and a converted gun. "

The ATF makes no distinction between an assembled and a disassembled machine gun in your posession.  It's an old law going back to gangster problems.


Regards,

Malta

[lazs2]

See Rule #4

[WMLute]

Originally posted by stantond
Obviously he inherited the guns or acquired them before the 'instant background checks' were established in Virginia.  

Background checks do not apply to "private sales".  If I purchase a firearm from and individual, I am not subject to any type of back ground check.  It's a private sale between the two of us.

You can walk into a gun/knife show, and purchase as many firearms as you want and not get a background check, as long as you purchase from an individual, and not a dealer.


p.s.  this guys sounds a bit "off" and I don't think taking away his gun priv's was a bad thing.