Author Topic: RL VFR pilots: Ever been lost? Tell all here  (Read 643 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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RL VFR pilots: Ever been lost? Tell all here
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2005, 10:37:53 PM »
I was flying over what I tought was central Virginia a few weeks ago, but NORAD was very helpful in letting me know I was over DC.
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Offline beet1e

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RL VFR pilots: Ever been lost? Tell all here
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2005, 04:24:56 AM »
Interesting stories, guys. HangT – one of the problems with aircraft compasses was the noobs who would take off their headsets and place them on top of the instrument panel, next to the compass. It seems some people don’t know that headsets contain magnets.

Cpxxx – I hope the mods will go easy on this: I smiled to myself when I saw your story and that your registration was Charlie Uniform. The plane I was flying in the following incident was November Tango. Seriously! Maybe I’ll post a pic of it later. So, we are a right pair of...

Just before a trip to SW France, I got a call from my club manager (FBO) to say that the ADF had been removed for repair, and the transponder was…. iffy. OK, I could live without the ADF, but I insisted on the transponder being fixed. All was OK. My flying partner and I made use of the two VOR receivers from home base (Enstone, near Oxford), skirting round the SW of London avoiding Heathrow, and then east parallel with the south coast to Lydd passing MIDhurst VOR enroute. In those days (before EU borders were fully opened) you had to clear British customs outbound at a designated airport, then land at a immigration/customs designated airport in the country of destination. (That’s all changed now, but there were still special considerations if carrying foreign (eg. American) passengers at late as 1996) It was a lot of arsing about, and for this reason amongst others, we got only as far as the French town of Poitiers for an overnight stop. Next day was OK – overcast but visibility 10km+. Next port of call was Perigueux – from memory about 120 miles S of Poitiers. There’s an NDB at Perigueux which of course was no use to us without the ADF. No problem – we flew a back bearing off the Poitiers VOR. The VORs in France were usually good for about 100 miles range at VFR alts. (I was not an alt monkey in RL – lol) As expected, the VOR signal began to weaken at about 100 miles, and the needle began to swing a little. The other VOR receiver had however picked up the Limoges signal, and its reading suggested that, assuming we were still on track from Poitiers, we should be close to our destination – just over that next ridge, just west of that town, as my partner concurred. We got over the ridge, there was the town, the hill, but no bloody airfield.

****ing Aida, was my initial response, as we circled around in disbelief.  More of an annoyance than anything else. We knew exactly how to get to Limoges if need be. But where was Perigueux airfield? Had we got the right place? Checked the maps, the spellings etc. We were over a remote area of forest. Bordeaux was at least 100 miles away to the SW. I knew I’d be lucky to make radio contact at that range at that alt., so…

…climbed to 4000ft. Called Bordeaux and explained the position. His first question, not surprisingly, concerned fuel endurance – 4 hours. I had to squawk 7003 and then he was able to see me – 25 miles from the destination airfield! With a vector from Bordeaux, I found Perigueux easily. I had already been in radio contact with them earlier. The runway was 12, wind 120/20knots. A different voice from the first one advised me that there were thunderstorms in the area, as suggested by the angry crackling of the radio. Funny how these aviation incidents seem to come back to back, because on final approach to 12, the original voice came back, and sounded as if he’d rushed across the room. The wind was still 20 knots but was from a new direction -  now 300 or 320  – can’t remember exactly, but I knew I didn’t want to be landing on 12 with a 20 knot wind from any direction starting with a 3 – lol – so opened up the power to abort the landing and reposition for 30. Other than that, I was never lost, especially when I joined a GPS equipped TB10 syndicate. But… there are traps. If manually entering a waypoint or destination that was not in the GPS database, I learned to check the coords listed against the map. There were quite a few errors in the Bottlang guide at that time.

Just in case you are wondering why I asked for reorientation from Bordeaux and not Perigueux – it’s the language thing. Yes I know that English is supposedly the international language of aviation. The real world is different, and I found that ATC’s command of English was typically in direct proportion to the size of the airfield. I did not want to risk a further balls up by confusing ATC at Periegueux (a small place) with a request for VDF or “QDM” as it was known in Britain back then. I would also avoid using words like “to” and “for” and “right” – except to mean the opposite of left…

…a Garuda Airlines A300 crashed on approach to Medan in Sumatra in 1997. I was in Jakarta, capital of Indonesia, myself shortly afterwards and just by chance met a guy who was part of the investigative team involved. He told me that the dialogue from ATC had included the somewhat Americanised English expression “right now” to mean “immediately”. The instruction from ATC had gone something like ”Turn left, turn right now”. The Garuda pilot was confused by this, and maybe ATC could not understand his confusion. The pilot questioned ATC saying “Turn right now?”, believing the original instruction to have been superseded. ATC apparently gave the go ahead, thinking the pilot meant “immediately”. The plane turned right instead of left, and crached into a mountainside. All 234 aboard were killed.

So if you ever fly anywhere foreign, watch your language!

Offline Holden McGroin

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RL VFR pilots: Ever been lost? Tell all here
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2005, 04:37:38 AM »
Seriously, I've never been lost while flying, because in the northwest USA, I can always pick out about three snowcaps, and since I do 90% of my flying east of the Cascades, no rain, blue sky.  Its easy to tell where you are when you can see Three Sisters, Jefferson, and Hood on the horizon.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2005, 04:42:50 AM by Holden McGroin »
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2005, 04:43:46 AM »
Holden! Wow, the 3 sisters - all above 10,000ft. I've flown in that area myself - from Mahlon Sweet to Bend and back, in a p*sspot C152. Perfect weather - temp 100°, dewpoint 45°! It's never that good over here.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2005, 04:50:22 AM »
Most of my flying is done from Klamath Falls, Bend/Redmond, Sunriver, Reno, John Day, maybe only once or twice a year do I head over the Cascades, maybe only when the steelhead are running on the Umpqua.
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Offline Chairboy

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RL VFR pilots: Ever been lost? Tell all here
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2005, 10:26:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Holden! Wow, the 3 sisters - all above 10,000ft. I've flown in that area myself - from Mahlon Sweet to Bend and back, in a p*sspot C152. Perfect weather - temp 100°, dewpoint 45°! It's never that good over here.
Mahlon Sweet was where I did my single touch & go the other day, to their bemusement.  They're building a new runway, and there's a neat safety innovation.  Not only does ATIS include '...New runway three under construction, DO NOT LINE UP WITH THIS RUNWAY, it is CLOSED' but they also have the ubiquitous X's painted and, this is my favorite, they built big X's out of lights that are propped at a 45 degree angle at each end of the runway shining up along the glideslope.  T'ain no one accidentally landing there, not if they can help it.

I never though about the CPS (Cascade Positioning System), I'll have to use that next time I'm in the air.  :D
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Offline Dux

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RL VFR pilots: Ever been lost? Tell all here
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2005, 11:14:03 AM »
I got temporarily lost once in the southern Green Mountains of Vermont once, for about 15 minutes. It was my first cross-country solo in a fixed-wing, Cessna 172... I was a helicopter pilot already for about 4 years, so I figured it would be easy.

Only problem is... flying in an airplane is much higher than a helicopter, and your perspective is very different. I was probably overconfident in my "experience", too. Anyway long story short, I realized I had missed a waypoint somewhere, and flew in circles looking for a recognizable landmark. Finally flew over Mt. Snow airport... which had the name painted on the runway in huge letters. :)
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Offline Replicant

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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2005, 11:50:24 AM »
I once got told about a Harrier pilot who was on VFR approach to RAF Leeming.  He was cleared to land but didn't arrive.  Turned out he landed at Dishforth airfield (AAC) to the south by mistake!  Oooops! :)
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Offline cpxxx

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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2005, 09:35:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e


Cpxxx ? I hope the mods will go easy on this: I smiled to myself when I saw your story and that your registration was Charlie Uniform. The plane I was flying in the following incident was November Tango. Seriously! Maybe I?ll post a pic of it later. So, we are a right pair of...

 


Well if we combined Charlie Uniform and November Tango maybe we could fly a triangular cross country:(  (I'll get my coat) Just be glad you've never flown Golf Alpha Yankee Sierra Xray.

Replicant that landing thing happens all the time. I remember a British aircraft arriving at my local airfield. No tower there.  He called the field in sight, called finals, landed and requested parking.
Only when he was greeted by some grim looking men wearing camouflage and toting Steyr assault rifles did he realise he had landed at the nearbly military base .:lol .

But they have had they're problems. A few years ago a Fouga Magister of the Irish Air Corps was on a cross country.    Becoming temporarily unsure of his position and flying into the 'circle of uncertainty'.  He decided to follow the coast south til he hit  Dublin.  Trouble was he was already south of the city.  But even so, Ireland is a bit small and in a jet he should have seen something  he knew. The Fouga magister has an endurance of about an hour and a bit so he soon ran out of gas. Unbelievably he put it down in a big pasture near Cork completely undamaged. Not often you see a jet in a field. Full marks for his flying, nul points for his navigation. :eek

Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2005, 11:38:08 PM »
I was in a rush to land my kills at A42, when I realized the ack was firing at me and they had captured the base and I didnt realize it! Talk about a mix-up..I...what? Oh..real life? I dont fly..its too scary.

~AoM~

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2005, 02:50:28 AM »
cpxxx LOL, and just to show I wasn't BSing, I've lifted a pic of the aircraft from a print. Apologies for the crappy quality. I had a half share in this Piper Warrior PA28-151, with a leaseback arrangement to the flying club. Got to say I was pretty appalled at the way people treated her - climbing in to the cockpit with middy boots, standing on the seats. But worse was to come. Some dork who'd just got his PPL-A having been a microlight pilot decided to take NT to his microlight club to show off. Trouble is he had not checked the length of the field and/or the runway requirement for NT. He landed but realised the field was too small, decided to go around but realised he'd left that decision too late, so piled it into the end of the field.

We expected repairs to take at least a year. The plane was worth about £28,000. This was 1991, the time of Norman Lamont's ERM experiment and 15% interest rates, so we couldn't afford to have £28,000 tied up in a hunk of bent metal when it could be earning us £4200pa in a bank. So we asked the insurance to pay us the anticipated cost of the repair. We got £25,000 and then sold the avionics for £3000, so it worked out quite well.

I avoided club leasebacks after that. Part of the problem was that I could never get my plane when I wanted it! Plus the other things I mentioned.

NT at Booker (Wycombe Air Park), shortly before leaving for Quimper, France (via Cherbourg) c1990