A divebomber nightmare

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Izalotagunz! Can see 30 guys protecting their Cv against suicide B24s.

mucho gunz on the side



 From the Yamamoto's museum @http://album.nikon-image.com/nk/NAlbumTop.asp?key=555537&un=97313&m=0

[Karnak]

It was a great looking ship.


That "model" is insane.

[SMIDSY]

that would be great for the CT, specially cuz it had seaplanes that launched from the rear.

[gear]

Flack huggers wet dream:aok

[WarRaidr]

wow very nice  what scale is that ?

[gear]

1/10 Yamato scale model at Kure city Hiroshima prefecture.
Length 86.29 ft
Width 12.76 ft

[Widewing]

Originally posted by gear
Flack huggers wet dream:aok

Don't be mislead, the Yamato class did not have a great anti-air defense. In comparison to the South Dakota and Iowa class battleships, the Yamatos could barely put up 35% of the American ships volume of fire. A Yamato could put 19,700 pounds of anti-aircraft ordnance up per minute. That may sound like a lot, but the Iowas could put 49,000 pounds of ordnance into the sky every 60 seconds. American Baltimore class Heavy Cruisers could put 18 tons of triple-A ordnance up per minute, almost double what a Yamato class could manage.

Both the Musashi and Yamato was sunk with relative ease by US Navy carrier planes and casualties among the aircraft were considered light.

My regards,

Widewing

[OntosMk1]

Don't be mislead, the Yamato class did not have a great anti-air defense. In comparison to the South Dakota and Iowa class battleships, the Yamatos could barely put up 35% of the American ships volume of fire. A Yamato could put 19,700 pounds of anti-aircraft ordnance up per minute. That may sound like a lot, but the Iowas could put 49,000 pounds of ordnance into the sky every 60 seconds. American Baltimore class Heavy Cruisers could put 18 tons of triple-A ordnance up per minute, almost double what a Yamato class could manage.

This is true, but wasn't the Iowa class and South Dakota class specificly designed to counter the threat of the Yamotos?

[SMIDSY]

no, the yamato was kept secret untill after the iowas were built. in fact it was the other way around: it was built to blast the filthy americans out of the water with 10 (?) 20" guns. the Iowas only had 18 inchers

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
only had 18 inchers

LoL, only 18"ers??? It's like drivin down the street in a compact saying, "it's ONLY a tank, we can take it". I know what you mean though, just struck me as funny. Compared to the Yamota's nightmare main batteries you're right:)

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
no, the yamato was kept secret untill after the iowas were built. in fact it was the other way around: it was built to blast the filthy americans out of the water with 10 (?) 20" guns. the Iowas only had 18 inchers

Yamato had 18.1" guns. Iowa was armed with 16" guns. However, these were the best 16" guns ever designed. In terms of armor penetration and effectiveness, the 16", 50 caliber gun was the equal of the Japanese 18.1".  By the way, in naval guns, caliber does not define the bore. The bore is called out in inches. Caliber refers to the length of the gun barrel from breach to muzzle.

Therefore, the 16", 50 cal guns were 50 times longer than the bore diameter.

For a detailed evaluation of WWII battleships, go here.

My regards,

Widewing

[rshubert]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
no, the yamato was kept secret untill after the iowas were built. in fact it was the other way around: it was built to blast the filthy americans out of the water with 10 (?) 20" guns. the Iowas only had 18 inchers

I must correct you.  Respectfully.

THe Yamato had 9 x 18" guns.

The Iowas had 9 x 16" guns.
The Iowas had about a 15% advantage in rate of fire.

The range of the guns was similar, within 1000 yards.  It has been noted and acknowledged, however, that the FIRE CONTROL system on an Iowa (refitted to the earlier BBs, too) was the best in the world.  Our stabilization systems could lock onto a target at extreme range, and were not affected by maneuvering.  Our millmetric fire control radars were able to provide blind fire capability, whereas the Japanese had to depend on radar ASSISTED gunfire, a hybrid system that used radar ranges and visual aiming.  Look at the Kirishima-South Dakota fight to see where that leads.  South Dakota got mideval on the Japanese battlewagon.



The Yamato was armored with 16 inch guns in mind, and her armor was MUCH thicker than that of an Iowa.  The Iowas had inclined armor and a double armor protection scheme on the sides that was designed to strip the penetrator cap off incoming shells, however, and that tended to level the playing field.  A Yamato could penetrate the deck armor of an Iowa at all ranges, and an Iowa could penetrate the deck armor of a Yamato at all ranges.  There would have been no advantage at long ranges to either side, especially considering that at long ranges the rate of fire advantage is offset by the need to spot shellfire results.  In close, Yamato had an advantage until the range closed to 25000 yards or so, when the Iowas were able to penetrate the Yamato's armor belt.

The Yamato had a top speed of 27 knots, the Iowas had a top speed of 33 knots.  That 8 knot difference is very telling in a naval battle--the guy with the speed dictates the engagement.

My thoughts on a Yamato-Iowa matchup would be that the outcome would depend on statistics.  A smart Iowa skipper would stay at long range, and use his fire control advantage to pound on the Yamato.  The guy who gets the hits would win out, and there's a lot of pure luck involved in that.  Being a patriot, I would give the advantage to the Iowas, with their "shoot and scoot" maneuverability, over the Yamato with her heavy punch but average fire control.

[Toad]

I think it was the Washington, BB-56, that hit Kirishima. 75 16 inch rounds out in ~ 3 minutes, 9 hits. Bunch of 5 inch hits too, though.

South Dakota took 42 "large caliber" hits with 38 dead, 60 wounded. South Dakota had suffered a power failure at the beginning of the engagement that knocked out all her electronics.

[Karnak]

Kirishima was a 14" armed battlecruiser though.  She couldn't take anything like what a proper battleship could.  The only real Japanese battleships were the Yamato, Musashi, Nagato and Mutsu, two Yamato class and two Nagato class ships.

Between the Iowa and Yamato I'd favor the Iowa, but she'd get mauled pretty bad ans likely would be out of action for a very long time.  It is also possible that both ships would survive when one chose to withdraw, that is in fact the most likely outcome based on WWI battleship engagements I think.


That said, for sheer presence physical  nothing beats a Yamato.  It is also a great looking ship.  I would like to see a BB task group using Japanese ships in AH.

[Bullethead]

Karnak said:

Kirishima was a 14" armed battlecruiser though.  She couldn't take anything like what a proper battleship could.  The only real Japanese battleships were the Yamato, Musashi, Nagato and Mutsu, two Yamato class and two Nagato class ships.

At the range 2nd Guadalcanal was fought at, it didn't matter how much armor Kirishima had.  No plunging fire  to worry about and both ships' belts were vulnerable to each other's main guns at the short range.  It could easily have gone the other way, and I think South Dakota was quite lucky that none of her 14" hits were in really vital areas.  In fact, most of the "heavy shells" that hit her were 8".

As for other IJN BBs, I think the Ise and Fuso classes were somewhat better than their US contemporaries, both when built and as they were all subsequently modified.  Think about an Ise vs. Texas engagement at any point in their respective lives, even after Ise got the flightdeck.

Between the Iowa and Yamato I'd favor the Iowa, but she'd get mauled pretty bad ans likely would be out of action for a very long time.

I'm not sure Iowa would have suffered even a scratch.  Basically, thanks to way better radar and fire control systems, Iowa could have maintained accurate fire on Yamato from beyond Yamato's ability to even see Iowa.  The radar Iowa had was one of the first to have a PPI scope, and shell splashes showed up on it.  This enabled the ship to spot fall of shot VERY accurately at any range, even if the splashes weren't visible from the foretop.