Burning the US Flag

[Gato]

Sandman, you are right, it is murder. But did you know there are people out there who want it NOT to be a crime if it is in the lines of civil disobedience?

[Sandman]

Those people are wrong.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Fine, they can use their "freedom of speach" to burn a flag.  I'm going to use mine to "Physically defend" the flag.  

I'll go in swinging and get the flag out.

That makes for kind of a funny image.

[Skuzzy]

There is no such thing as a freedom that explicitly denies others of freedoms.  In some countries, a 'freedom' which does that could be called slavery, tyranny, or a host of other names.

This action to prevent the burning of the flag, or make it unlawful, puts our political leaders ignorance in the spotlight.  The flag code is explicit about the handling of our flag when it is worn as to be undignified to fly any longer.
The flag is to be burned.  In the military there is a specific drill associated with this.  It honors the flag and what it stands for.

Burning the flag is tantamount to saying, "I no longer want to be in this country.  I hate it.".  Do not attempt to give me rationalizations which would indicate any other meaning.  Read and understand the flag code.  Then come talk to me about it.

Our flag has a life of its own.  It is to be revered, as any other life is.

That is my opinion.

[Gato]

Now, now sandman.  Don't get testy.  The 1st amendment gives them the right to their opinion, no matter how asinine it is.  Look at congress!

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gato
Now, now sandman.  Don't get testy.  The 1st amendment gives them the right to their opinion, no matter how asinine it is.  Look at congress!

Oh... they're free to have their wrong opinion. But as Skuzzy points out, their freedom of expression does not trump someone else's right to live.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gunthr
Do you think we should allow people to burn the US Flag? Do you think the issue is too trivial to criminalize this act with an amendment to the Constitution?

I kind of think that we should allow people to burn the flag, but I'm not totally comfortable with this. I would like to hear some arguments...


__________________

My opinion is unchanged.

I'd expand on it though. I also dislike the Pledge of Allegience simply because it's ritualized and coerced. Most people just say the words, but they don't mean it. They've said them too often. By comparison, I was shaking in my shoes while I took the Oath of Enlistment (both times). That was a meaningful pledge. (Sorry, I'm off topic).

[Gunthr]

Skuzzy, I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean that we should criminalize burning the flag in protest of the government?

[Skuzzy]

I did not say we should criminalize it, although I would not oppose it.  And the flag is not the representative of our government.  The flag is repsentative of our nation.  Our nation is not the government.  Our nation is the people.

Well, it used to be, should be, and was meant to be.

[Gunthr]

I'm leaning toward allowing people to burn the flag myself Sandman, although I have nothing but contempt for those who would do that.  

Your arguments and observations in your post way back in 2001 before 911 made a lot of sense.  I think it could be a slippery slope, where next thing you know, you could be arrested for spitting on the steps of a capital building or somesuch.  And I'm concerned about trifleling with the Constitution.

[Gunthr]

I did not say we should criminalize it, although I would not oppose it. And the flag is not the representative of our government. The flag is repsentative of our nation. Our nation is not the government. Our nation is the people.

Well, it used to be, should be, and was meant to be.- Skuzzy

I understand now. Thanks.


__________________

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gunthr
And I'm concerned about trifleling with the Constitution.

I have just the organization for you.

[rpm]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I think one should be able to express their freedom of speech, even if it means burning a flag. However, if they decide to try to express their 1st amendment on my property, I will excercise my 2nd amendment on them.

[Gato]

Originally posted by Sandman
My opinion is unchanged.

I'd expand on it though. I also dislike the Pledge of Allegience simply because it's ritualized and coerced. Most people just say the words, but they don't mean it. They've said them too often. By comparison, I was shaking in my shoes while I took the Oath of Enlistment (both times). That was a meaningful pledge. (Sorry, I'm off topic).

You are off and on, both.  You swore and oath and that oath was before the flag of our nation.  Not only were you bound by the words you spoke, but by the symbol you swore them in front of.
This is a subject which could easily spread over several threads.  It deals with pride in the nation, personal freedoms and personal beliefs.  Plus much, much more.  Over the eons men and women have died for a flag.  Were they wrong to instill so much love for a piece of cloth?  Is it just a piece of cloth they died for?
When we fight and die, it is not only for our own pride, but the nation we love.  The flag is that symbol.  To let someone degrade the symbol is to devalue the lives given to protect it.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gato
Over the eons men and women have died for a flag.

I never swore an oath to protect a piece of cloth. Not ever. The veterans did not die for something so cheap as fabric. They did it for a piece of paper not for a symbol.