Author Topic: One of my favorite Cold War aircraft  (Read 1758 times)

Offline slimm50

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One of my favorite Cold War aircraft
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2005, 09:25:25 AM »
Whenever I see a mig 15 I think of the computer-generated foe in Falcon 3.0. That was one tough rascal to dogfight with in a F-16.

Offline Westy

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« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2005, 09:46:49 AM »
"used German data on swept wings designing B-47"



BzzZZzzt!

The Germans stole Douglas swept wing data and Kurt Tank was a plagerist!  

« Last Edit: July 05, 2005, 09:49:23 AM by Westy »

Offline Stringer

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« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2005, 09:54:51 AM »
Like Ammo, I had an Uncle that flew the B-47.  He flew B-24's during the War, and then got a nice job at Getty Oil as their Corporate pilot.  He had stayed in the Reserves for the extra pay, and got called to Active duty into SAC to fly the B-47.  He also commented on the long Alert duties, and flying over Alaska and near the Pole, stuff like that.

Getty held his job for him, so he was lucky in that sense, after he got out of SAC.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2005, 09:57:23 AM by Stringer »

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2005, 11:10:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by skernsk
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a 'cease fire' in Korea?  Seems to me aint nobody won yet ....


Lessee.. North Korea invades South Korea backed by China and USSR. US/UN moves to repel invaders, North drives defenders to very southern end of the peninsula. Then Mac's landings at Inchon cut NK supplylines, NK's pushed back to the Yalu. The Chinese join in.. with over a million troops. US/UN pushed back to the original border.

You could call it a stalemate... looks to me like the US/UN won. Borders are the same as pre-invasion. The side who's goals were thwarted is the North's.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2005, 11:51:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Lessee.. North Korea invades South Korea backed by China and USSR. US/UN moves to repel invaders, North drives defenders to very southern end of the peninsula. Then Mac's landings at Inchon cut NK supplylines, NK's pushed back to the Yalu. The Chinese join in.. with over a million troops. US/UN pushed back to the original border.

You could call it a stalemate... looks to me like the US/UN won. Borders are the same as pre-invasion. The side who's goals were thwarted is the North's.


Well, who attacked who in 1950 is still a question. USSR was strongly against starting a war against South Korea, and it's a fact. Stalin warned Kim Ir Sen that he'll get no support from USSR if he'll start a war. I see no surprise if some SK looneys started a provocation to get American occupation troops involved: they knew that there were no Soviet units in DPRK.

All I can say is that Korean war was a dirty provocation from "blue" side. Fortunately the same policy in Germany didn't end in a hot war.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2005, 11:55:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
Every time it got too hot for the Russkie MiG pilots they ran for the Yalu, where the UN pilots could not follow, like a dog with its tail between its legs.


It's funny how Western history is distorted.

"UN" fighters vulched airfields in China, across Amnokkan (Yalu-Tszian) river, so running away to China was pretty useless. And it were American pilots who prefered to run away diving when they couldn't maintain a 2:1 numerical superiority: Soviet fighters were not allowed to follow them across the front-line or sea.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2005, 12:10:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"used German data on swept wings designing B-47"

BzzZZzzt!

The Germans stole Douglas swept wing data and Kurt Tank was a plagerist!


DC-3 was a trans-sonic aircraft?! LOL! :rofl

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2005, 12:18:24 PM »
It's funny how Russian History is distorted.

Timeline:

Aug 8, 1945  120,000 Russian troops invaded Manchuria and Korea
 
Sept 9, 1945  US accepts Japanese surrender in Korea, South of 38th parallel
 
Nov 14, 1947  U.N. Resolution to remove troops from Korea after national elections.  

Feb 8, 1948  North Korean People's Army (NK) officially activated
 
April 8, 1948  President Truman orders withdrawal of US troops from Korea  

Aug 15, 1948  The Republic of Korea was proclaimed. Syngman Rhee was elected first president, (by a legislature formed by popular elections conducted in May).  

Sept 9, 1948  Democratic People's Republic of Korea claims jurisdiction over all Korea  

June 29, 1949  Last US troops leave South Korea
Korean Military Advisory Group (KMAG, 200 men) formed  

January 12, 1950  Truman's Secretary of State Dean Acheson confirms Korea and Taiwan are outside American Far East security cordon

June 1  NK strength at 135,000, with seven assault divisions and 150 russian T34 tanks
 
June 25 Korean time  NK invades Republic of South Korea (ROK) without warning  

June 25 New York time  UN Security Council demands NK stop its attack and return to its borders  

Boroda, please explain why NK invaded SK.. what provocations this lil country without armor or heavy weapons employed that would 'provoke' NK with it's 7 assault divisons into an invasion?

The Russian Version would be fine.. we can laugh at that too.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2005, 12:21:50 PM by Hangtime »
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2005, 12:37:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Boroda, please explain why NK invaded SK.. what provocations this lil country without armor or heavy weapons employed that would 'provoke' NK with it's 7 assault divisons into an invasion?
 


First: it's a surprise for me that there were no American troops in SK in 1950. Maybe we interpret some things in different ways? AFAIR there were several American divisions in SK when the war began.

There was absolutely no reason for DPRK to attack first. They were warned many times that they'll get no assistance, I repeat - NO aid from USSR in case they'll start a war.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2005, 01:09:22 PM »
Wrong, there is not reason that you can think of.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2005, 01:10:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
First: it's a surprise for me that there were no American troops in SK in 1950. Maybe we interpret some things in different ways? AFAIR there were several American divisions in SK when the war began.

There was absolutely no reason for DPRK to attack first. They were warned many times that they'll get no assistance, I repeat - NO aid from USSR in case they'll start a war.


Pavel, my friend.. if there was no reason for DPRK to attack first..  then why did they?

And once it started, why did USSR continue support?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2005, 01:29:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Pavel, my friend.. if there was no reason for DPRK to attack first..  then why did they?

And once it started, why did USSR continue support?


First: according to official version it was SK troops that attacked first. Anyway - it's not a proven fact that DPRK started a war.

USSR only sent advisors, and an anti-aircraft corps to China. Main aid went from China, not USSR.

Moscow did it's best to prevent that war, but it didn't mean we had to abandon Korea to yankees. Anyway, Kim Ir Sen did quite well without assistance until "UN" landing in Chemulpo.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2005, 01:54:01 PM »
Your 'offical version' is incorrect.

From BBC, June 25, 1950

1950: UN condemns North Korean invasion
North Korea has invaded South Korea at several points along the two countries' joint border.
The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) has denounced North Korea's actions as a breach of the peace and has called for an immediate ceasefire.

The United States President Harry S Truman has gone a step further and urged western nations to go out to Korea and help repel the communist invasion.

"By their actions in Korea, communist leaders have demonstrated their contempt for the basic moral principles on which the United Nations is founded," he said.

Surprise attack

The invasion took the international community by surprise, even though the American Economic Co-operation Administration has its biggest mission - about 2,000 staff - in South Korea.

The seven-power commission of the United Nations in Korea (Uncok) confirmed North Korean troops crossed the border - known as the 38th parallel - in 11 places after artillery bombardments were reported in South Korea at 0400 local time.

Uncok has identified northern forces in the Ongjin peninsula and the western towns of Kaesong and Chunchon and landings on the east coast around Skagnung, almost 40 miles from the border.

Their statement also contained details of machine-gun attacks by four 'Yak' aircraft on military and civilian airfields outside the South Korean capital Seoul, destroying aircraft and jeeps and setting fire to petrol tanks.

President Syngman Rhee of South Korea - who denied early rumours of war - told Uncok at least 36 North Korean tanks and armoured cars had been counted on their way to Seoul by the shortest routes.

The North Korean wireless station, in the capital Pyongyang, justified the invasion saying communist forces were counter-attacking against border incursions by the South Koreans in the early hours of the morning and reported a state of war shortly after noon local time.

After an emergency meeting with his cabinet South Korea's foreign minister Ben Limb urged the people of the republic to resist the "dastardly attack".

The UN Security Council met at Lake Success, Detroit after the Korean Ambassador John Myung Changan sent an urgent petition to the State Department in Washington.

Korea has been divided since the Japanese withdrawal at the end of World War II left the USSR occupying the area north of the 38th parallel and the US to the south.

--------------

It was a pre-planed invasion.. against a country that had NOT provoked it's attacker. There remains NO justification for an invasion of the South other than communist expansion. Regardless of Stalin's cautions to the North, they attacked anyway. Stalin, deciding that a candestine support program was called for, supported Mao, supplied China and gave 'em the materials, jets and tanks necessary to sustain the attack and later assisted in launching the second Chinese support campaign after North Korea had been defeated in detail following the Inchon landings.

Pavel.. really. For shame. "USSR only sent advisors, and an anti-aircraft corps to China. Main aid went from China, not USSR."

Your 'advisors' flew Migs... against US Pilots. USSR was instrumental in supplying China with tanks, planes, guns, supplies expressly for Korean Conflict... a conflict destined to set the tone for US/USSR confrontations around the world for the next 50 years. You deny this?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2005, 02:06:36 PM »
Hang, for me - Soviet aid is justified simply because we sent volunteer fighter pilots there, who stopped your "US pilots" who were there to destroy the whole country. Main target were powerstation levees on Amnokkan river, Soviet pilots saved them.

There was a story about 64th IAK pilots visiting a captured B-29 crew in Singisyu, and Americans started to complain about being held in a basement in "inhuman conditions". The answer was quick and simple: "You destroyed a prison yoursef".

We helped with defensive measures.

Also please remember why UN passed a resolution allowing Americans to invade. Chinese representative was not allowed to attend a Security Council meeting. Damn! That's how wars start... Oh, sorry, noone cares about UN any more, aggressors sit in the SC and noone complains... :(

From what you quoted above - it's obvious that DPRK counter-attacked. At least for me. ;)  

Also look at the timeline you posted above. US occupational administration was the first to declare RoK and start a staged "elections", just as they did in Germany. Sorry, we were always reacting on your activities. That's probably why we lost the Cold War.

Offline Furball

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« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2005, 02:17:33 PM »
Some beautiful planes here..  let me add a couple

Vulcan






Victor




Lightning



I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
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