African Birth Rate

[Skydancer]

Ok thats true. I agree that often the Governments in Africa are often the worst enemies of those people. In order to help africa we neeed to do something about that though I'm damned if I know what.

Having been there a couple of times  I'll also admit I have a liking for the place and the people I met so the issue is one I have more than a passing interest in. I'm no scholar though so detail is not my forte just a gut reaction as to what is the right thing to do.

[slimm50]

Originally posted by myelo
It's crude birth rate, which is the number of births in a given year divided by the total population, including men.

Thanks for clearing that up:)

[slimm50]

Originally posted by midnight Target
when yer ciphering you need to remember yer gazinta's.

Hey, I know my gazintas:
5 gazinta 10 2 times,

5 gazinta 15 3 times,

5 gazinta 20 4 times,

5 gazinta 25 5 times,

5 gazinta 30 6 times,
.
.
.
.
1000 gazinta 719,000,000 719,000 times:D

[Lizking]

You want to solve the African problem?  Blockade and isolate it for 5 years.  No assistance, no imports, no nothing.  The situation would solve itself.

The degree of suffering would be terrible, but it will be no matter what we do.

[Pooh21]

Originally posted by Lizking
You want to solve the African problem?  Blockade and isolate it for 5 years.  No assistance, no imports, no nothing.  The situation would solve itself.

The degree of suffering would be terrible, but it will be no matter what we do.

I think thats what most of the aid to africa has already done is prolong the suffering, 100k people, aid saves 70k who pump out a bunch a kids who die, survivors pump out a bunch more who most die and more where most die and more, and more, then you have 1million+ dead instead of just 100k.

[Lizking]

By flooding the market with "free" aid, we prevent native investement in self-sufficentcy.  We stifle enterprise and encourage graft.  We limit markets for African goods by devaluating their currency due to the amount of "free" money given.  Africa has more resources, both in people and in exploitive industries than any other continent on earth.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The problem is that the problems of Africa will NEVER be solved by forgiving debt and throwing money. I have to wonder, where the Hell did the idea that the debts of Africa were ever a major cause of starvation in Africa come from, and who the Hell came up with it?

You could spend the total of the national debt and the GNP on it on a yearly basis and damned near the same number of people will starve as are starving now.

It would take force, and a significant amount of it, to deal with the civil wars, the corruption, the graft, and the greed, in order to get it all under control well enough to actually do some serious good. We'd only be judged as heavy handed imperialist colonizers.

Further, you could take them all the food, medicine, and supplies that could possibly be generated and it would only be a very temporary and unsustainable solution.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. No where does it better apply than in Africa.

Or as Sam Kinison once screamed from a stage "Don't send them some food, move them where the food is!" While you can't relocate them, you get the idea.

It's not that I have no sympathy for the unfortunates of Africa, but rather that I'd like to see something meaningful and worthwhile done rather than wasted rhetoric and wasted money.

[Sandman]

If we can bring democracy to the middle east and make them free, surely we can bring food to Africa and cure thier hunger.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

One major project at a time.

[AdmRose]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The problem is that the problems of Africa will NEVER be solved by forgiving debt and throwing money. I have to wonder, where the Hell did the idea that the debts of Africa were ever a major cause of starvation in Africa come from, and who the Hell came up with it?

You could spend the total of the national debt and the GNP on it on a yearly basis and damned near the same number of people will starve as are starving now.

It would take force, and a significant amount of it, to deal with the civil wars, the corruption, the graft, and the greed, in order to get it all under control well enough to actually do some serious good. We'd only be judged as heavy handed imperialist colonizers.

Further, you could take them all the food, medicine, and supplies that could possibly be generated and it would only be a very temporary and unsustainable solution.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. No where does it better apply than in Africa.

Or as Sam Kinison once screamed from a stage "Don't send them some food, move them where the food is!" While you can't relocate them, you get the idea.

It's not that I have no sympathy for the unfortunates of Africa, but rather that I'd like to see something meaningful and worthwhile done rather than wasted rhetoric and wasted money.

If national debt was a teller of a nation's starvation rate, well, the United States would probably not exist.

[Tilt]

I wish Africa did have a problem that could be pointed to and solved.............

I wish "being poor" was the same as living / dieing in abject poverty..........

What is clear to me is that the plight of many Africans is a totally unacceptable blot on the face of humanity........ one which would not be tolerated elsewhere.............

This is not only about food aid because of a drought / bad harvest or local war.

Its not only about corrupt governments syphoning off massive amounts of money from a beliguered populace.

Its not only about interest payments on loans that now exceed debting countries combined health and educational budgets

Its not only about pandemic aids where in some countries the average age is reduced from over 50 to 33 years yet drugs and condoms and education cannot be afforded.

Its not only about trade tarrifs thats allow "western countries" to profit from African mineral recources whilst denying those same African countries profitable trade with the "West"

It is about all these things and many more....but to me there is also an element of  "Western denial" a sort of SEP effect.

Numbers game in Africa is a tragedy of epic proportions that puts past world wars in the shade..............

The horror or WWII saw the passing of approx 36 million over approx 6 years (rounded for simple math) thats 6 million a year or 16,500 per day.

Yet poverty related deaths in Africa are apparantly double this death rate.

The Make Poverty History Campaign may be a Liberals Wet Dream.

It may be nievely assuming some sort of common Christian ideal mixed with the fanatasy of a "common good".

It may have been hijacked for the greater glory of various ego's.

But it has brought the numbers home to me ....they are truely evil.

[Skydancer]

I second that.

!

[Jackal1]

I agree with the statement above that sending more money will not cure anything. In fact I beleieve it will only create greater problems. More goods, food, supplys for the war lords and theiving groups to gather up and make themselves more powerfull. They are, in fact, as a people, their own worst enemy.
  In basis what they have is internal terrorism on a large scale.
  The only way it will be controlled, like it or not, is by use of over powering force. Dodge City on a large scale.
  All the funds in the world would not help in the current situation. It only fuels the fire that is slowly destroying their country.
  Education on a large scale cannot be accomplished under the current circumstances.

[FiLtH]

Settle down...settle down...everythings ok. We gave the billions of dollars...it will all work out.

[Samiam]

...there's a little country called Haiti. All of 8 million people.

It's hard to fathom our arrogant thinking that we can make any meaningfull impact at all in Africa when we've failed so miserably with a problem much closer to home and of comparative miniscule scope.

Shouldn't we prove our ability to use external means - such as debt relief, cash, medicine, food, etc - to "fix" a tiny little problem before committing to solving problems for a whole continent?