We leaving already?

[lada]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
read any english speaking news paper and it talks about Iranians wether they be govt intel types or jihadists crossing the border.  Same thing with syria.
 

I took 2 but i didnt find it in any of them.

Any link ?

[Yeager]

Bali

[RTSigma]

I'm not sure if this is Mail on Sunday or just plain Sunday Mail, but I hear the former is basically a tabloid. So it could be a fakie.

[Momus--]

Originally posted by RTSigma
I'm not sure if this is Mail on Sunday or just plain Sunday Mail, but I hear the former is basically a tabloid. So it could be a fakie.

The Daily Mail is a conservative tabloid. The last time a british tabloid printed stuff based on fake documentary evidence, the editor (Piers Morgan at the Daily Mirror) was forced to resign, even through the substance of his story was later shown to be basically sound (detainees being mistreated in Iraq). I would be surprised if the Mail's evidence is less than reliable.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
read any english speaking news paper and it talks about Iranians wether they be govt intel types or jihadists crossing the border.  Same thing with syria.

Sure I just haven't seen an authority say that they are the majority.

It is no secret that the majority of the oposition fighters/organizers are not Iraqis.

That's your opinion, I am asking for a source that it is based on.  I've seen people say that there are "alot", "many" or "a growing number" of foreigners fighting in Iraq, but no statisics on it, or even someone say that "most" are foreigners.  If you can show me differently then great.

What do you think is more palitable though, thinking that it's foreign terrorists fighting in Iraq, or domestic insurgents fighting in Iraq?


From a Center of Stategic and International Studies analysis of the Iraq insurgency.

"Islamist Groups and Outside Volunteers

Other key insurgent elements include Arab and Islamist groups with significant numbers of foreign volunteers, as well as and Iraqi Islamist extremists, like the one led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. It is unlikely that such groups make up more 10% of the insurgent force, and may make up around 5%, but in some ways they are the most dangerous element in the insurgency since they seem to be deliberately trying to provoke a civil war between Iraq's Arab Sunnis and its Arab Shi'ites, Kurds, and other minorities."

http://www.csis.org/features/050512_IraqInsurg.pdf

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Sure I just haven't seen an authority say that they are the majority.


 

That's your opinion, I am asking for a source that it is based on.  I've seen people say that there are "alot", "many" or "a growing number" of foreigners fighting in Iraq, but no statisics on it, or even someone say that "most" are foreigners.  If you can show me differently then great.

What do you think is more palitable though, thinking that it's foreign terrorists fighting in Iraq, or domestic insurgents fighting in Iraq?


From a Center of Stategic and International Studies analysis of the Iraq insurgency.

"Islamist Groups and Outside Volunteers

Other key insurgent elements include Arab and Islamist groups with significant numbers of foreign volunteers, as well as and Iraqi Islamist extremists, like the one led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. It is unlikely that such groups make up more 10% of the insurgent force, and may make up around 5%, but in some ways they are the most dangerous element in the insurgency since they seem to be deliberately trying to provoke a civil war between Iraq's Arab Sunnis and its Arab Shi'ites, Kurds, and other minorities."

http://www.csis.org/features/050512_IraqInsurg.pdf

from your source

In the spring of 2005, US officials estimated that there might be fewer than 1,000 foreign fighters in Iraq or as many as 2,000. Many felt the number flowing in across the Syrian border and other borders was so high the total was rapidly increasing78 A few press estimates went as high as 10,000 before the fighting in Fallujah.

....

US officials kept repeating estimates of total insurgent strengths of 5,000 from roughly the fall of 2003 through the summer of 2004. In October, they issued a range of 12,000 to 16,000 but have never defined how many are hard-core and full time, and how many are part time. According to one outside expert, estimates as divergent as 3,500 to 200,000 were being cited in March. 2000.72

I would say no one knows exactly but these guys seem to contradict themselves.  Of course I cant recall the last time the terrorists lined up for a census count but that may be my poor memory.  I would say my statement was spot on considering the numbers and considering they are the "most dangerous" of the fighters.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Lazerus
Trolls need luvin too!!

Laz,

You posted the picture of a Euro troll. New Zealand trolls have MUCH smaller heads. EVERYONE knows that.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Maverick
Laz,

You posted the picture of a Euro troll. New Zealand trolls have MUCH smaller heads. EVERYONE knows that.

I allways thaught this was more accurate

[Maverick]

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I would say no one knows exactly but these guys seem to contradict themselves.  Of course I cant recall the last time the terrorists lined up for a census count but that may be my poor memory.

It seems to me that providing information on what US estimates where over the entire insugency and so the numbers change.  

But if you look at what you quoted,  "In the spring of 2005, US officials estimated that there might be fewer than 1,000 foreign fighters in Iraq or as many as 2,000."


As of late October of 2004...."according to a CENTCOM document, MNF-I estimated the overall size of active enemy forces at about 20,000.".

http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05431t.html

I would say my statement was spot on considering the numbers and considering they are the "most dangerous" of the fighters.

Which would be true if your statement read, "The most dangerous insurgents/terrorists in Iraq are the foreigners.".

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn
It seems to me that providing information on what US estimates where over the entire insugency and so the numbers change.  

But if you look at what you quoted,  "In the spring of 2005, US officials estimated that there might be fewer than 1,000 foreign fighters in Iraq or as many as 2,000."


As of late October of 2004...."according to a CENTCOM document, MNF-I estimated the overall size of active enemy forces at about 20,000.".

http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05431t.html




Which would be true if your statement read, "The most dangerous insurgents/terrorists in Iraq are the foreigners.".

those numbers are a year apart?  how is that accurate.  You are quoting a guessing game.

Alot of grunts who have BTDT have a lot different view. (its funny how the people actually fighting the war have a completly different view than most of the press and political opposition)

[Karnak]

Gunslinger,

The issue I'd take with your statement would be the "Most of them are Iranians" claim.  Foreigner does not mean Iranian in particular.

Obviously some are Iranians, but I'd guess a large number are Saudi Wahibbists and Syrian Ba'athists too.  The Wahibbists, the most violent and radical faction of Islam that backs Al Quaeda, is a Saudi based sect.  Iran has no tolerance for it and has it's own brand of Islamic fundamentalism that is quite at odds with the Wahibbists.

We are not dealing with a single, unified group or culture here.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
those numbers are a year apart?  how is that accurate.  You are quoting a guessing game.

Nope only recent info as I can get.  Still what was the statistics that you were basing your opinion on and what was the source.

Alot of grunts who have BTDT have a lot different view. (its funny how the people actually fighting the war have a completly different view than most of the press and political opposition)

What's funny is how you persist in not offering up source and making vague claims to "it not being a secret", by the way the most recent insurgent estimates by the US government is indeed classified, or "alot" nameless grunts.  

If you don't actually have a source just say so.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Story's been picked up by the AP now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8530232/

Not that it provides any real information or verifies anything from the previous story.  There's no real denial or acceptance, just typical political tapdancing.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Thrawn

That's your opinion, I am asking for a source that it is based on.  I've seen people say that there are "alot", "many" or "a growing number" of foreigners fighting in Iraq, but no statisics on it, or even someone say that "most" are foreigners.  If you can show me differently then great.


From a Center of Stategic and International Studies analysis of the Iraq insurgency.

"Islamist Groups and Outside Volunteers

Other key insurgent elements include Arab and Islamist groups with significant numbers of foreign volunteers, as well as and Iraqi Islamist extremists, like the one led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. It is unlikely that such groups make up more 10% of the insurgent force, and may make up around 5%, but in some ways they are the most dangerous element in the insurgency since they seem to be deliberately trying to provoke a civil war between Iraq's Arab Sunnis and its Arab Shi'ites, Kurds, and other minorities."

http://www.csis.org/features/050512_IraqInsurg.pdf