"Why Your .50s Can't Kill Acks" - For Dummies

[Kweassa]

Please, before you continue to make a fool of yourself, go back and read my posts. What claims did I make? I am too laze to write it for a third time. Just go back and read it and stop acting like an arse.

 dedalos, my deluded buddy, this is a separate thread dedicated to this discussion only! It's got nothing to do with what you've posted on the other thread.

(although your 'shrapnel' comment on that other thread did not make any sense anyway)

 ...

im sorry but most gun implacements @ airfields were sandbagged and such to provide protection against straffing and bombing (light protection, but not unprotected).

20mms kill acks way too easy, u dont even have to be close, just general area, and 1 bullet will kill the ack.

acks need to be hardened some, and made more leathal. at the current state they are very under modeled. a long fighter should not be able to deack a field. it should require multiple fighters working together or a bomber to deack.

 Okay! Now we're talking, whels.

 You see, a comment like this, is not a whine, but a suggestion to change the arbitrary modelling into something we can all agree on.
 
 And under that premise, I agree the cannons kill acks too easily. There have been number of suggestions in regards to this.. and I think the ideas of;

a) sandbag protection around ack
b) human being modelled sitting at ack emplacements

 would be a pretty good idea. It would give the .50s a pretty good chance to disable the ack(but not necessarily kill the gun), and make it a bit more difficult for 20mms to kill ack, since it would need a closer, more precise hit inside the "sandbag" perimeter to kill acks.

Have any of you ever fired a 50 Caliber?

It does way more damage than what it does in this game.

You can shoot a 50 Caliber round through at least 10 school buses,but yet in this game it does hardly nothing too anything,unless your using 8-50's.

 In that case you can go to the .50 thread in General Forums and complain there. Some of the best pilots in AH who exclusive ride .50 planes will tell you that the .50 is plenty powerful.

 This thread, is trying to prove that the power of the .50 has nothing to do with it being inable to kill ack.

 It's a gun mounting method problem, not a gun problem. So please don't confuse the two....

 ...unless, you have something to say about the amount of hits required to kill ack gun with a .50 round.

 In that case, currently, AH ack gun required 5 rounds of .50s to kill.

[jetb123]

I wish someone would post a film of a lone 50 cal round hitting something. And showing the damage.. Would seem intersting.

[Oleg]

It was posted many times already.

http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/files/wing-test.wmv (~8Mb)

[jetb123]

Okay with the power of the 50 cals the shots that fired first. Seemed like 10 rounds should kill any kind of gun even if only a few rounds hit. and those shots at the end wow they just destroyed anything.

[Oleg]

First was 20mm AP

[TrueKill]

Kweassa is right all you have to do is aim. .50cals are API not HE that means you have to actually hit the ack gun. Cannon are HE that means the explode on impact. In other words take a rifle point it to the ground and fire a few rounds then get a grenade pull the pin then drop it. Which is going to do more damage to you? It doesnt take much of a brain to know that HE does more damage the AP. I took a P47D-40 up 8x 50cals convergence set at 400. Zoomed in droped in on the ack fired a 2sec burst and the ack was dead. Try this aim to the left or right of the gun if your in a plane with wing guns see if that helps.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Oleg
It was posted many times already.

http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/files/wing-test.wmv (~8Mb)

  At the end of the movie, take a look at the metal plate hanging on the left side.  I'd say it is about 3 or 4 feet away from the massive explosion of the 20mm.   It does not even move   Yeah, if that was a gun it would have definetly been destroied bu the amaizing explisve power of teh 20mm

[Kweassa]

Okay with the power of the 50 cals the shots that fired first. Seemed like 10 rounds should kill any kind of gun even if only a few rounds hit. and those shots at the end wow they just destroyed anything.

 jetb, FYI, 5 rounds of .50s kill ack guns in AH.

At the end of the movie, take a look at the metal plate hanging on the left side. I'd say it is about 3 or 4 feet away from the massive explosion of the 20mm.  It does not even move   Yeah, if that was a gun it would have definetly been destroied bu the amaizing explisve power of teh 20mm

 The plate was strapped down with chains up and down, with metal poles dug into the ground to hold it stationary. If you look on the right side, you'll see the blast alone rolls the solid metal drum until it bumps into something and rolls back again. The target 'wing', is torn to bits.

 You think an ackgun isn't gonna be damaged by something like that?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Kweassa

 You think an ackgun isn't gonna be damaged by something like that?

Sure.  It could.  But would it die every single time?  Even if the answer is yes, then that 20 should have the same effect on a plane.  In anycase, another hard day at work is over .  Looking forward to our next argument, lol

[whels]

Originally posted by Kweassa
jetb, FYI, 5 rounds of .50s kill ack guns in AH.




 The plate was strapped down with chains up and down, with metal poles dug into the ground to hold it stationary. If you look on the right side, you'll see the blast alone rolls the solid metal drum until it bumps into something and rolls back again. The target 'wing', is torn to bits.

 You think an ackgun isn't gonna be damaged by something like that?

1 question that hasnt been asked or answered. yes the pic shows the explosive power of a 20mm hitting metal. but what would the effect be  with hitting the ground near it? would it  do the same, or would the effect be dulled with the bullet digging into the ground and confining the blast?

bullet fired @  a gun,  does bullet explode on instant contact with ground? does it rickoche off and explode doing less harm farther away?  does it burrough into ground, ground absorbs blast doing less or no harm?   lots of factors .

whels

[DREDIOCK]

Remember also while you may have fired 100 rounds on a pass how many of them were hitting at the distance of convergance?

When your diving in at 300 MPH and your convergance is say..400 yards the target is only at that convergance point for but a very breif moment and only for that breif moment are your rounds hitting all in the same spot and if your in a plane that only has wing mounted guns its even worse as if your too far the bulletsd land on either side, and if your too close the bullets land on either side.


\  ./       600 yards
 .\/
  .* ground target  400 yards
 ./\
/   .\   200 yards

(Lousey pick I know but I think you get the idea)
You can see above that if your converg is set for 400 yards or even 500 yards your rounds are landing on either side of the target
Same thing when you get in close. Below 400 yards again your rounds start landing on either side of the target.
and if your diving in on that target your only at that magical 400 yard range for less time then it takes to snap your fingers and in that time you have to be dead balls accurate in your aim or you miss entirely. A hair to the left, you miss, a hair to the right, you miss or only hit with 1 or 2 rounds as opposed to the full load your shooting
Unlike if your shooting at a target in the air where you can reasonably expect to maintain a 400 yard distance for more then a millisecond therefore you have more rounds actually hitting in the same place on a target which is 10 times the size

[dedalos]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
[/B]

Dred,

As far as my posts go, the whole thing started when one of the explanations I got on why the gun dies from a 20mm hitting 5 or 10 feet away was that srapnel would kill the crew manning the gun and cause secondary exposions from hitting the ammo (good explanation).  To that, I said that 100 rounds of 50cal missing the gun, would or should have the same effect as the srapnel.  Meaning, they could miss the gun but hit the crew or the ammo.  I just don't have good reactions to people starting for dummies threads and calling an opinion a whine just because they don't agree with it.  Look at the picks, do you think anyone around the gun survived that?  And even if they did, they are probably still running

[Vudak]

Ok, so an MG-equipped plane can kill an ack.  That doesn't mean that the cannon-armed planes shouldn't be obligated to do so instead (maybe the MGs can fly in too to present more targets).

1 round somewhat close to ack from cannon plane, ack goes down.  The slightest little indentation on the cannon plane's trigger.

So really, when we want to get the ack down, if I'm in a tippy, I'll get the ack.  If I'm in a Hellcat and you're in the tippy, you get the ack.

Fair enough?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Vudak

Fair enough?

NO! you get the ack, I killshooter the FH and the fuel.

[Mustaine]

actually i have seen many time where i fired 1-2 cannon to kill an ack, and they hit inside the little circle the ack is it, but it does not die.