Author Topic: Would it be a reasonable expectation (Read 1482 times)

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **on:** July 13, 2005, 11:52:41 AM »

to demand of the Muslim communities in the free and civilized world that they do more than pay "lip service" to the idea that Islam is NOT in agreement with the terroists that claim their "jihad"

is based on the Muslim faith?

Would it not be true that Muslims that live in a community and look the other way at best, and encourage/sanction/fund the activities of the terrorists living in their midst at worst, are just as guilty as those who commit the acts? Would they not be just as guilty as anyone else who had prior knowledge of or prior involvement with any other crime and did nothing to stop it?

Once it reaches the point where there are those who are inciting riots, murders, bombings, and other acts of terrorism, there is no longer any "grey area" about freedom and tolerance of religion or speech.

I would expect the same thing of any other race, creed, religion, or other sect. Harboring murderers and remaining silent while giving "lip service" to the denouncing of their acts is nothing more than a decietful endorsement of those acts.

Skydancer · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2005, 11:57:10 AM »

Agreed but the same ought to have applied to the IRA. It didn't and I hate to say it but US sympathisers were part of that problem. We've been living with terrorism a long time here and not only from Muslim communities!

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:07:44 PM »

Oh, it should apply to EVERY group, period. Just as I stated in the last paragraph. It's too late to go back and change the past. But to wait any longer to save the future is absurd. I'm certain there are U.S. citizens who were indeed guilty of backing the IRA. I'm just as certain there are British and U.S. citizens and also "foreign nationals" in BOTH countries who are supporting those who attack both countries.

I am not the sort to judge by the color of skin, the clothes, or the religious book carried or not carried. However, at this point, given the gravity of the situation facing the civilized free world, I'm not so prone as I once was to offer freedom and tolerance to everyone without question. I am as opposed as anyone to a "police state" or to surrendering freedoms. But I am also just as opposed to having my friends and family slaughtered by some psychopath in the name of whatever religion or other cause he espouses.

Skydancer · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:10:08 PM »

Agreed.

We can't go back. We need to make sure as best we can that we never support terrorism, ( or blind hatred or prejudice for that breeds terrorism ) wherever it comes from.

lazs2 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2005, 04:04:09 PM »

I believe that the pope himself denounced the IRA bombings of civilians.

I don't believe that the IRA is saying that their cause is a catholic religious jihad tho.

As a former catholic... I renounce the IRA bombings or kilings of civilians tho...

Feel better?

lazs

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2005, 04:08:38 PM »

How much cash did the IRA get from US citizens? Was this ever tracked?

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2005, 07:07:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GtoRA2
How much cash did the IRA get from US citizens? Was this ever tracked?

I'm sure there is a paper out there somewhere with a reasonable idea.

If anyone gave a dollar, it was a dollar too damned many.

Suave · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2005, 07:29:24 PM »

Most americans who gave to the IRA had no idea that they were giving money to the IRA. CFC for example.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2005, 07:43:21 PM »

Deleted

Rules 5 and 7

Skydancer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:25:27 AM »

Thats a little inflamatory. Quite possibly illegal certainly over here ( incitement to racial prejudice).

Just for the record understanding what motivates the terrorist and sympathising with a terrorist are two different things.

There are indeed some serious injustices going on in the Middle east. And many of those injustices are comitted against arabs and palistinians as well as Israelis.

Without going into a long complicated argument ( I have to go to work after this coffee ) I think its fair to say that unless we realy address the problem of Israel and Palastine properly ( much as has been done in NI ) then the bombing and killing will continue and innocent people will die. To be seen as even handed in our approach as Western nations would go a long way to breaking down some of the anger. It might not cure it. There will always be evil, idle, crazy people who will resort to terror, but it might help sway opinion amongst guys such as my computer engineer fellow and reduce the acceptance of such terror tactics amongst the general muslim population.

It might be a good idea to reduce our dependance on ME oil too as that gives those guys a very good weapon ( economicaly ) to use against us.

Delirium · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:41:43 AM »

Gunslinger, I'm happy I'm not from the Middle East or I would definitely take offense to that. There is always a radical group in all areas of society, from politics to religion... you can't judge the entire mess by the actions of a few.

edit: Bah, why am I wasting my time, the moderators are just going to delete that anyway.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:55:15 AM »

Quote

Quite possibly illegal certainly over here ( incitement to racial prejudice)

Since when was islam a race?

Lazerus · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:12:54 AM »

The propensity to stereotype members of the Muslim religion wouldn't be so strong if this philosophy wasn't so prevalent.

The Muslim community needs to speak out against this type of barbarism to legitimisize their faith.

The absence of a general outcry against the fanatical sects of Islam from the mainstream Muslim community is deafening.

AKWeav · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:23:17 AM »

After a few terrorist nukes have gone off, people of the world might think it's time for all muslims to leave.

Hopefully, the general muslim population will realize this before then.

Momus-- · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:51:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lazerus

The absence of a general outcry against the fanatical sects of Islam from the mainstream Muslim community is deafening.

You don't know what you are talking about and I seriously doubt you have ever met a british muslim yet alone talked to one.

I lived for seven years in one of the predominently asian areas of West London (Hounslow) and worked with a number of muslim men and women during that time. I never heard a single one utter an extremist word; we even watched the events of 9/11 together on the office TV and my Islamic colleagues and friends were as shocked, dismayed and repelled as the non-muslims.

I now live about 40 miles from the hometown of last week's bombers and local TV news has been replete with members of their community condemning the attacks.

Quote

The Muslim community needs to speak out against this type of barbarism to legitimisize their faith.

What utter and complete rot. Why in a modern society should anyone need to legitimize their faith in the face of actions of a criminal minority? And as for your baseless contention that muslims haven't condemned terrorism, you can't have looked very hard.

Link

Link

This is not the religious war that so many are trying to paint. It is an already discredited group of extremists using violence to advance a political cause by claiming a religious framework as justification for their crimes. By framing your own response to the extremism in religious terms you actually advance their argument.