Dogfighting in a mossie...

[Widewing]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
What would you compare it to?

I know this is individual as I know most people consider the jug (my main ride) a worse turner then P38s and Nikkies but I can out turn both in the jug.

Tex

You cannot depend on the enemy being a lousy pilot, because some of them are not. At low to medium altitudes, the P-38 (any model) and the N1K2 absolutely own the P-47s. It gets even worse if they have an E advantage on the initial merge.

Down low, a well flown P-38J is a match for an expertly flown P-47. If the P-38 survives the first minute of so, it will rapidly gain the Jugs six by simply keeping the fight in the vertical.

Yesterday, I had just taken off in a P-47D-25, 50% fuel and a belly tank. Passing 3k, olskool offered a fight. He was in a P-38J and quite a bit higher. I dumped the drop tank and turned his way. He dived down, building speed and we passed on each other's left side. Having barely 250 mph, I watched him go vertical in a high loop. I just extended trying to get a bit more air speed. When he came down, we jousted a bit, mostly me avoiding his attacks. I took a few pings, but eventually equalized the E states enough to work angles and was able to clobber the P-38. Being the TA, the fight continued and after a few more minutes, olskool was able to get on my six. The D-25 simply cannot compete in the vertical with the Lightning. Now take the fight to 25k or higher and the Jug can handle the P-38. Not so down low.

Score that one 2/1 in olskool's favor.

Let's see; the P-38J is faster, accelerates faster, easily out-climbs the Jug and is one of the very best stall fighters in the game. The P-47N will eliminate some of these disparities (except climb and low-speed maneuver), giving the Jug pilot the ability to disengage and gain some seperation (the P-47N being some 20 mph faster on the deck than the P-38J, with even better roll and turning than the D models).

Now, if the P-47 has the E advantage from the outset, things will be much hotter for the P-38 as a well handled P-47 can maintain that E advantage for a long time (and nothing zoom climbs better).

As for the N1K2; if you are Co-E and Co-alt, the Jug pilot should simply refuse the fight until he has a discernable advantage in E. Otherwise, the P-47 is at risk.

When presented with the choice, never fight the way the enemy fights best.

My regards,

Widewing

[TexMurphy]

@thrila

Thats basicly the way I do fight in the jug. Be agressive, bleed E, deploy flaps, out manouver enemy for a short windown of time, get shot of or dive away. I also strech it as vertically as possible. Even though the vertical characteristics of the Jug are bad due to its bad accel and "hate nose high" characteristics I do force it as much as I can. I guess the mossie is just the same in that aspect.

Its gonna be interesting to try this out.

@Widewing

I think the main reason of why Ive been so successfull against nikkies and P38s in the D25 is that most pilots under estimate the jug.

They know they can out climb, out turn, out everthing the jug. Only thing they cant is out flap and out bleed it.

This makes it quite easy to get on their six. Once there 90% of the nikkies and 38s start truning but they are still over their flap speed. So I just deploy another notch of flaps and get a great lead turn shot.

What Ive noticed about most 38s is that if they start using vertical they use something similar to a High YoYo, its more a diagonal climb and fall off to right or left then high yo yo but still, and when they do this I cant stay with em, ever. This is to be expected. BUT what I do get is a fantastic angle shot. Because we do tend to fall off roughly at the same time. When I start to fall off I deploy flaps which makes me extreamly stable through the situaiton. They zoom right past me and I get the shot.

Though I only follow if I see they have a angle to their climb so that they dont fall down straight at me. When they do this high yoyoish manouver they wount be able to get guns at me.

Same thing goes if they start doing obelique turns. I love it. Obelique turn is a manouver the 38 should totally own the 47 in but once again I do follow and get inside turn because of worse nose up ability.

Tex

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Widewing
As for the N1K2; if you are Co-E and Co-alt, the Jug pilot should simply refuse the fight until he has a discernable advantage in E. Otherwise, the P-47 is at risk.

When presented with the choice, never fight the way the enemy fights best.

It's ironic that I mentioned the above just the other day. Tonight I ran into a pair of Nikis at relatively high altitude.

I had taken a P-47D-25 (I like the skin of Dave Shilling's Jug, Hairless Joe) and loaded 50% internal fuel, a belly tank and a pair of 500 pound bombs. My intention was to head to the nearest Knit base where a constant furball was taking place. As I overflew the nearest Rook field, I noticed several red dots on the DAR headed in. I finally spotted their distant dots, somewhat higher than me. I figured that these were possibly bombers, so I pickled off my bombs and zoomed up from 13k to 18k. As I leveled off, the enemy icons were now visible. Two Nikis trailed by what turned out to be a distant LA-7, which bugged out. The N1K2s were at 17k. Being rather slow, I unloaded (nose over, establish zero G for acceleration) and headed straight at the nearer Nikis.

Both N1K2s zoomed up towards me, but I simply flew on by as they rolled out behind. With WEP engaged, I accelerated to 375 mph and began a high-speed climb. At 3.5k distance, I pulled into a climbing reverse that brought me about 1,500 feet above the wallowing Nikis. Up this high (I was now at about 19.5k), the Jug easily out-climbs and out-accelerates the N1K2.

Cutting to the chase; both Nikis were clobbered.

This was an excellent example of refusing to fight the way the enemy (aircraft) fights best. Instead, I used the strengths of the Jug to force them to fight the way my aircraft fights best. IE: Energy fighting. At the altitude this fight took place, the N1K2 is a dog. This was a turkey shoot.

Tex is right about being aggressive. However, it's best to have the tactical advantage first. When you have the faster aircraft, getting the advantage requires only patience.

My regards,

Widewing

[Happy1]

Hello Widewing, u know ur subject matter, congrats, would u also post some of ur films, pls?   Thx.

Cheers,

Happy1  

[Happy1]

Hello Widewing, u know ur subject matter, congrats, would u also post some of ur films, pls?   Thx.

Cheers,

Happy1