P-47D vs Fw-190A (for those who play Il-2 or WB)

[Kweassa]

True, SirLoin.

 The A-8 at 75% fuel load has the aux tanks totally empty and about 25% of the aft tanks burnt. The D-9 at 75% has less fuel in the aft tanks than the A-8, since it got no aux tanks.

 It was a bit difficult in trying to determine the fuel load for the planes.

 I've tried setting individual fuel levels for the planes this way and that way.. but more and more I tried to do that, it seemed that every plane had an "excuse" for itself, and more exemptions were made everytime a plane was tested out.

 If two people take off in a D-9 and A-8 with 100% fuel, the A-8 will always have more fuel than the D-9. One may argue that the A-8 might take-off with lower fuel load.. but frankly, if we go this way there's juft no way to measure objective performance of a plane.

 My conclusion is that the fuel load is itself, a part of the plane. Testing out a plane that carry large fuel loads with only 25% or 50% fuel load, and then comparing that with lighter planes with 75% or 100% - this is basically making the numbers up as one pleases.

 So I just gave that up and decided to stick with the 'generic 75%'.

[hammer]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Maybe you'd find my turn radius testings interesting guys. Currently, I've finished from a6m2 upto P-38s and going on the rest of the P, S, T planes..  It was a massive test, and I've found some interesting pointers about a lot of planes to chew about.

 I'll post it at the AV forums in a few days.....

Kweassa,

If you don't mind, I'll post the data at netaces after you post it on the boards.

[Kweassa]

If you don't mind, I'll post the data at netaces after you post it on the boards.

 I don't mind at all.

[Charon]

I read an anecdotal account a few years ago in one of the "Aces" books that described a turning fight with a 190 (assumed A series). In general, the two pilots got locked into a flat turn situation (from alt) and stayed even with each other through the fight (eating up alt during the process) until one decided to break. From the description the turning lasted for some time since both planes were hesitant to be the first to break.

Charon

[SirLoin]

Appreciate the stats Kweassa...Maybe a A8 with %50 is closer to a dora w 75%.

[Kweassa]

The Results are Out:

Type (SL angle used)
- time to complete under normal setting (average turn speed), radius
- time to complete under one notch of flap (average turn speed), radius
- time to complete under full flap (average turn speed), radius

 ....


Fw190A-5 (1.0/1.5)
- 21 seconds (180mph), 269.0m
- 21 seconds (162mph), 242.1m
- N/A

Fw190A-8 (1.0/1.5)
4xMG151/20
- 23 seconds (181mph), 296.3m
- 21 seconds (171mph), 255.6m
- N/A
2xMG151/20, 2xMK108
- 23 seconds (181mph), 296.3m
- 23 seconds (172mph), 281.6m
- N/A


Fw190D-9 (1.0/1.5)
- 22 seconds (181mph), 283.4m
- 21 seconds (172mph), 257.1m
- N/A


Fw190F-8 (1.0/1.5)
- 23 seconds (179mph), 293.0m
- 22 seconds (171mph), 267.8m
- N/A


P-47D-11 (0.05)
- 23 seconds (153mph), 250.5m
- 23 seconds (136mph), 222.6m
- 22 seconds (120mph), 187.9m


P-47D-25 (0.05)
- 23 seconds (157mph), 257.0m
- 23 seconds (143mph), 234.1m
- 23 seconds (120mph), 196.4m


P-47D-40 (0.05)
- 24 seconds (159mph), 271.6m
- 22 seconds (151mph), 236.4m
- 23 seconds (124mph), 203.0m


 ...



(Planes in between the stats are also listed for comparison)

In order of tightest turn radius with flaps up

P-47D-11: 250.5m
Me163B: 254.1m
P-47D-25: 257.0m
P-51D: 258.6m
Ta152H-1: 261.9m
Fw190A-5: 269.0m
P-38J: 269.0m
P-47D-40: 271.6m
P-38L: 275.0m
Fw190D-9: 283.4m
Fw190F-8: 293.0m
Fw190A-8: 296.3m
Fw190A-8(30mm): 296.3m

In order of tightest turn radius with one notch of flaps
(planes marked with * cannot use one notch flap)

Bf109G-10: 220.4m
P-47D-11: 222.6m
P-38G: 223.5m
P-51D: 224.2m
Bf109G-10(30mm): 225.8m
P-38L: 228.5m
P-38J: 229.9m
P-47D-25: 234.1m
P-47D-40: 236.4m
*Typhoon Mk.Ib: 232.0m
Me163B: 237.1m
Fw190A-5: 242.1m
Ta152H-1: 246.2m
Fw190A-8: 255.6m
Fw190D-9: 257.1m
Fw190F-8: 267.8m
Fw190A-8(30mm): 281.6m

In order of tightest turn radius with full flaps
(planes marked with * cannot use full flap)

Bf109G-6(30mm): 175.5m
Ki-61-I-Tei: 177.1m
Bf109G-2: 179.0m
P-47D-11: 187.9m
P-51D: 189.4m
Bf109G-10: 192.0m
P-51B: 193.1m
C.205: 193.6m
P-47D-25: 196.4m
Bf109G-10(30mm): 201.5m
P-47D-40: 203.0m
*Tempest Mk.V: 215.2m
*Typhoon Mk.Ib: 232.0m
*Me163B: 237.1m
*Fw190A-5: 242.1m
*Ta152H-1: 246.2m
*Fw190A-8: 255.6m
*Fw190D-9: 257.1m
*Fw190F-8: 267.8m
*Fw190A-8(30mm): 281.6m

 Check out for  more turn radius figures at The AH2 Compendium of Fighter Turn Performance

[Skydancer]

Sometimes I wish Hitech would jump in and partake in this debate. It might help clear up a few things like if there realy is a slight bias towards American planes or not!

[moot]

Kweassa, wouldn't it make more sense to have all fighters carrying an equal amount of fuel in volume rather than %age?

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Skydancer
Sometimes I wish Hitech would jump in and partake in this debate. It might help clear up a few things like if there realy is a slight bias towards American planes or not!

That is such a stupid request that I can't believe you even posted it.  

Hitech - "Why yes, after years and years of making games, I've finally decided to come clean and admit that there really is a bias towards the American planes in every game I've done, especially AH."  

Uh huh.  

The game isn't biased.  It is modelled as accurately as can be modelled.  In some cases, even the "favored" American planes catch the short end of the stick when HTC decides how to model them.

[Kweassa]

Kweassa, wouldn't it make more sense to have all fighters carrying an equal amount of fuel in volume rather than %age?

 Testing more than 50 planes, and setting all their fuel loads to a set point by fiddling with the fuel multiplier.. is an absurdly time consuming task... and it still would not be something more objective than the way I've tested it.

 For instance:

* X plane carries 100 liters of fuel at 100% load
* Y plane carries 500 liters of fuel at 100% load

 At which point do we set the volume of the fuel, that can be considered "fair" for both planes?

 How about 80 liters?

 In that case, for plane X that is only 20% of fuel burned, flying on 80% of total fuel load.

 However, for plane Y, that's 84% of fuel burned - flying only on 16% fuel.

 So here we compare a plane with almost full fuel tanks, with a plane with almost empty fuel tanks.

 I would hardly call that 'objective'. IMO setting a percentage of internal fuel, is makes more sense.

[Overlag]

and to be fair the testing is fair.

i mean a P51/47 engauging a 190/109 over germany will have like 70% fuel.... IE much heavier than the 190s/109s that its engauging.