Author Topic: Taking Sides (Read 1054 times)

Sloehand · « **on:** July 20, 2005, 02:57:54 AM »

OK, right now I'm pissed off... again. I just left the MA and there were 24 bish, 45 knits and 53 rooks. Six hours ago it was 97 bish, 143 knits and 167 rooks. That's more than 3 enemy to 1 friendly. At those odds we can do nothing, not even defend. And the score shows it. We got 19 bases at the moment.
I don' mind losing if I've got a fair and equal chance to win, but this is a trend that's becoming ridiculous and frustrating, because this situation happens to the Bishes far more often than it ever does to the Rooks or Knits.
I've played contineously (that's every day!) for better than three months now. Day, night, morning, late night, I put in 6 to 10 hours a day at this game and this imbalance in the numbers is a dominant trend.
In fact, I can only remember three occasions where Bishes had the advantage in numbers where the ENY restriction kicked in.
So, I admit this is anecdotal analysis, but it has been consistant and I play enough to be able to notice the trend. Its becoming a constant point of conversation among bishes, and many are getting fed up with it.
Today, one Bish was trying to get everyone to logout for a half hour so the rooks/knits could take all the bases and reset the map. Too many thought that was a good idea, though it never happened.
We need some way to level the numbers better. Not perfectly, but something to prevent overwhelming numbers for any two sides against a third.
The aggravation of having to fight all day long, consistantly outnumbered everywhere is making this game too stressful for some of us. I play the game to relax and enjoy and that's happening less and less every day.
I don't have a complete solution, but some leveling mechanisms are needed, because I guarantee this problem (and people's reaction to it) will only grow if left unresolved.

sullie363 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:12:08 AM »

The loss of a couple large former Bish squads certainly did not help. You are correct though, lately Bish have been unreasonably outnumbered pretty much consistently.

NHawk · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2005, 06:48:02 AM »

Actually this is a cycle that affects all sides. For several months it will be Bishops, then Knights, then Rooks.

It's a consistent inconsistency in the game.

Pooface · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2005, 06:58:08 AM »

yeah, it happens to everyone, not just bish. the thing is that theres no solution to this, because people in your situation will change sides, and leave other people a real hassle.

but locking sides would be unfair, and for now, youve just gotta deal with it. this is my major biggie with the whole 3 sides thing. itd be so much easier with just 2, and more fun

Shane · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:12:08 AM »

i don't see any problem... except maybe i'm taking it too easy on the rooks.

Country Kills As Kills Of
Bishop 245 0
Knight 0 216
Rook 0 29

NHawk · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:30:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
...this is my major biggie with the whole 3 sides thing. itd be so much easier with just 2, and more fun

I think the three side thing comes from the three theaters of operation in WWII. Rather than the more proper 2 sided Allied and Axis powers.

Alky · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:31:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
this is my major biggie with the whole 3 sides thing. itd be so much easier with just 2, and more fun

I've never understood why there's 3 countries, ever since AW, 2 would be much better!

Urchin · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:54:00 AM »

We have 3 sides because in theory it is more balanced than 2 sides. With two sides, HT would have to lock the population as a % of the other side (i.e. 1 side can have no more than say 110% of the other side) because it is human nature to seek imbalance (it makes things easier).

With 3 sides, if one side becomes to "dominate", the other two sides gang up on it (in theory). In practice, both larger sides attack the smaller side, leading to a de facto two sided game.

As with many things in this game people have a problem with, 3 sides is the best solution to a tricky problem.

Sloehand · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2005, 02:41:14 AM »

Well, just left the MA again and the numbers were 37 bish to 54 and 67 knits/rooks. That's 4 to 1 odds. We have 8 bases left. I'm not going to play any more tonight (though I'd like to), which means bishes have at least one less than they might have, because this is NOT fun.
I don't care what the cycle of advantage was in the past, I won't put up with it. Something needs to be done. So here are a couple of suggestions.
When any one country outnumbers the smallest country by some percentage (say 1.15 = 115% of the smaller country) new players must be entered in that smaller country until the percentage levels to some degree.
I know its not a great idea to force people to essentially switch sides in this solution, but what fun is it to have a 4 to 1 advantage and have the losing side vacate the game when the numbers are too great. If this is really a community of gamers no matter what country, then I would think most would want to offer a fair and equal challenge to the other sides.
And I say this with a smile, for all we know the rooks and knits are so lame they can't win without overwhelming numbers.

I mean is 4 to 1 odds really testing or proving your skill in the game?
As for the 3 countries, I think I might prefer 2 countries, but if that doesn't happen, then here is another idea. To prevent the larger sides from ganging up on the smaller (in bases) side, score significant perk points to the winner AND subtract the same or more from both losing sides. This might give the #2 country the incentive to win, and not just settle for not losing, discouraging any colusion between #1 & #2. Logically, then #2 and #3 would tend to beat up on #1, creating a real leveling conflict.
Remember, just because its always been this way, doesn't mean its not worthwhile to try and resolve the issue, especially one that is creating significant discord.

Loddar · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2005, 04:21:24 AM »

But why the sides with the most players
gang always the side with the less
players. What's the fun to hunt down
4 on 1, it doesn't matter what side this
happens ?

Should HT not instead make planesets
for each side i.e. Bishops = Russian and
Britain used planes, Rooks = US used
and Knights = German and Japanese used.
Then i would understand why people change the countries.

Today i don't understand it. Everbody can
fly every plane in every country. so people
only change to go with the crowd with the
highest population.

I think that must be changed in the future.
It is no fun for this side who has the attention of gang between the others.

DaPup · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:34:14 AM »

After HT implemented the eny limiter when the rooks had large numbers alot of squads and individuals left for other sides and it resulted in a unbalanced arena where the rooks were outnumbered for a few months, I'm not going to say that I heard no complaints but there were few and far between. The numbers do tend to shift, the real problem isn't that the bish are outnumbered it's that some knights and rooks decide to fly against the smaller number country. you mention 4-1 odds when in reality it is more like 1.46-1 for knight and 1.81-1 for rook....I could live with those numbers. you are basing your odds assuming that ALL knights and rooks are hitting bishops, that i'm sure is not the case...though it might seem like it. Making someone go to bishops who is in a rook squad will create more problems than you will fix. I'm not sure what the answer is but maybe bishops need to start trying to recruit some knight and rook squads to switch sides.

DaPup
-=Most Wanted=-
Rook

347 kills as rook
212 kills of knight
135 kills of bishop

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:27:37 AM »

Hilarious. Last night a Knit, who I will not mention by name, was constantly harping because "there are only 5 bases on the Bish<-->Rook border flashing" and "Rooks won't fight Bish, they all gang on Knits".

And now we have a Bish complaining about facing 4:1 odds last night.

I think I'm going to go on a quest for this alternative reality some people find in this game.

I think HTC needs to model the WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULA NCE.

Loddar · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2005, 08:33:22 AM »

Blablabla, but nice try to defend the
ganging rooknits this time

Klum25th · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2005, 09:27:30 AM »

If the cost to play on MA was taking down from $15 to $10, I think more H2H players like me would join the MA and fight for the Bishops. But dont think that will ever happen.

Urchin · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2005, 09:42:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sloehand
Well, just left the MA again and the numbers were 37 bish to 54 and 67 knits/rooks. That's 4 to 1 odds. We have 8 bases left. I'm not going to play any more tonight (though I'd like to), which means bishes have at least one less than they might have, because this is NOT fun.
I don't care what the cycle of advantage was in the past, I won't put up with it. Something needs to be done. So here are a couple of suggestions.
When any one country outnumbers the smallest country by some percentage (say 1.15 = 115% of the smaller country) new players must be entered in that smaller country until the percentage levels to some degree.
I know its not a great idea to force people to essentially switch sides in this solution, but what fun is it to have a 4 to 1 advantage and have the losing side vacate the game when the numbers are too great. If this is really a community of gamers no matter what country, then I would think most would want to offer a fair and equal challenge to the other sides.
And I say this with a smile, for all we know the rooks and knits are so lame they can't win without overwhelming numbers.
I mean is 4 to 1 odds really testing or proving your skill in the game?
As for the 3 countries, I think I might prefer 2 countries, but if that doesn't happen, then here is another idea. To prevent the larger sides from ganging up on the smaller (in bases) side, score significant perk points to the winner AND subtract the same or more from both losing sides. This might give the #2 country the incentive to win, and not just settle for not losing, discouraging any colusion between #1 & #2. Logically, then #2 and #3 would tend to beat up on #1, creating a real leveling conflict.
Remember, just because its always been this way, doesn't mean its not worthwhile to try and resolve the issue, especially one that is creating significant discord.

And I could go back and dredge up posts from last year that are damn near verbatim, except with the "gangee and ganger" country names reversed.

It really is a non-issue, HTC put in the ENY system, then nuetered it when it worked to well. If the numbers ever get to lopsided, they'll give it some teeth again.