Author Topic: house votes to make patriot act provisions permanent (Read 509 times)

JB88 · « **on:** July 22, 2005, 07:57:43 PM »

how can we expect other countries to develop and sustain thier own constitutions if we cannot do so with our own?

Sandman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:06:09 PM »

...brought to you by the same group of knuckleheads that want a Constitutional amendment to ban flag burnings.

Remember, we get the government we deserve. VOTE!

lazs2 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:28:44 PM »

vote for what or... who? one the one hand we have super patriots that want to control you and on the other we have socialists who want to be your mommy and tell you what is too dangerous to do or own.

not a lot of choice there but I still gotta go with the control freak patriots.... you can at least reason with them... and... I won't be their target most likely... with the socialist ban everything crowd.. I seem to constantly be their target.

it's like... Am I more worried about them seeing what books I've checked out of the library or..... on the other side... telling me I got to wear life jackets in the bathtub kinda thing.

I can live without a library card.

lazs

Hangtime · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:48:26 PM »

so, vote against something.

Just freakin vote... why should you let other folks make all yer choices.

Regarding the Paitriot Act... some old dead dude said:

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.[/b]

I think the old dead dude was on ta something.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:49:13 PM »

YeaH, I am with ya Laz. Both sides suck, but one side wants to take away gas cars, (especialy old muscle and 4X4s)guns, 5 gallon buckets, jet skis, hunting, fishing, meat, smoking and fun.

hell if the lefty guys have their way all you we be able to do with your time is browse porn( any kind, including sheep and kiddy) and do drugs.

Both sides are out to get the rest of our rights.

Me? I want guns,drugs, porn and muscle cars and 4x4s all at the same time!!

Boroda · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:53:36 PM »

Lazs, do you seriously think that you can change anything by voting?...

From what you, guys, wrote - I see that ypu are moving fast towards the most effective government system ever invented: good old USSR...

The only thing I can say - you'd better choose stalinism instead of gorby/khruschev pseudoliberalism. Seriously.

lazs2 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:56:18 PM »

hang.. I do vote. I vote against something as you say. If there is any chance a democrat may get in I vote republican... if the republican is a shoe in then I vote libertarian.

not the best solution but... best I can come up with.

I would vote against a partriot act but no one asked me.

I voted to make english the official language of kalifornia but the democrat socialist appointed 9th circuit kommisars said my (and the rest of the majorities) vote/s didn't count. That has happened with about 3 ammendments here in kalifornia... allways the socialist commie judges.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:59:15 PM »

gto... I am with ya. Those are the things I need not trigger locks on skill saws or life jackets to swim in lakes and rivers (yep.. the women got that one passed)

boroda.. maybe but... you guys invented it.. you embraced it and defended it and some... like you... still do.

We are a ways off yet.

lazs

Gunslinger · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:02:13 PM »

not sure if this is true but saw on the news in passing a couple of republicans that want to be libertarians pushed hard for amendments to the patriot act that made some of the not so populare parts of it renewable. personally I was glad to hear that but like I said it was in passing.

SOme of the other provisions need to be permanant. The CIA and FBI need to be ABLE to share intel data among others.

Boroda · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:11:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
boroda.. maybe but... you guys invented it.. you embraced it and defended it and some... like you... still do.

I don't defend "Soviet socialism". I only say it had some advantages over Western system. The difference is not only social/political but simply geographical.

We didn't have anything lilke life-jackets in bathtubs. I find this methaphore absolutely brilliant.

We didn't invent it, we were only lab rabbits for 70 years to show an obvious thing: human nature can't be underestimated. You can't build a society that shares with ordinary people who are usually selfish.

Get a gun, buy a wooden house in taiga and live on your own. It's easier and more effective then "voting". "Democracy" (tm) is nothing but a cheap and effective way to increase coke and chewing-gum sales.

VOR · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:16:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda

We didn't invent it, we were only lab rabbits for 70 years to show an obvious thing: human nature can't be underestimated. You can't build a society that shares with ordinary people who are usually selfish.

Simple yet profound. I like it.

Toad · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:48:06 PM »

Sort of. And there's still the Senate.

Quote

When it was enacted in 2001, the Patriot Act contained 16 provisions that were considered new grants of investigative authority. Congress attached sunsets to those provisions, requiring that they expire this year unless specifically renewed.

Republican leaders said 13 of those provisions didn't need renewed sunsets. Of the three others, the House bill limits one and sunsets two in 2015 unless Congress renews them.

Those two provisions allow the government to conduct "roving wiretaps," which monitor all of a person's electronic communications rather than a particular phone line, and obtain business documents and library patron records without the knowledge of the person being investigated...

...The Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday unanimously passed a measure that includes four-year sunsets on the same two provisions as the House bill. The Senate bill goes further than the House in restricting many of the other 14 renewed provisions.

Some lawmakers promised a fight to sunset the other provisions on the full Senate floor.

"There's still a lot of uneasiness about this legislation in middle America, and I think we need to pay attention to that," said Sen. Tom Coburn, Oklahoma Republican. "I believe it's very important for us to send a message of comfort to the American people that not just the two provisions in this bill will be sunsetted."

Now, how many of those here that have stated their dislike for the PA will start a meaningful written campaign to ALL the Senate stating their desires wrt the PA?

Gunslinger · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2005, 10:39:55 PM »

OK I'm confused....and actually intoxicated,

but WTF is a sunset? does that mean they have to be renewed after a certain amount of time?

If so I think that is totally reasonable. I dont want the govt having extra powers because of a war but there are provisions that if used properly are entirly nescesary. Others need to be continued while some of them should expire with time.

I'm glad at least people arnt confused about this bill being related to actual patriotism.

SEE NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL! IN YOUR FACE MOORE!

Boroda · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2005, 10:55:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I dont want the govt having extra powers because of a war

Do you see a trick? The "war" started by your current rulers is endless, there is no way to win it. So they simply want extra powers forewer. Smart guys, indeed. Àôôòàð, ïåøè èñ÷î.

Don't you have "5 minutes of hatered" on TV already, for collective meditation? Believe me - it will come soon.

lazs2 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2005, 09:21:23 AM »

boroda.. I am glad you realize that being extorted is against human nature and that communism is allways doomed to fail when humans are involved.

I do fail to see anything that soviet russia had that I want tho.

I also think that you have hit on another basic truth.... if you don't like it... move away. While some things have been accomplished by voting... moving away from population centerws is allmost allways a better way to stay free... except if you are randy weaver say during a democrats rule.

lazs