Author Topic: Army drill sgt. court-martialed for.....cruelty? (Read 497 times)

StarOfAfrica2 · « **on:** July 26, 2005, 12:41:44 PM »

Still trying to find a linkable source for this. NY Times piece (which probably means there's more to the story that isnt being told).

According to the story, Staff Sgt. Michael Rhoades was a drill instructor at Ft. Knox, KY. He was accused of, among other things, punching a recruit in the stomach, hitting a recruit repeatedly in the chest, and throwing another to the floor and calling him a "fat nasty", whatever that is. Rhoades was a 16-year vet, court-martialled and found guilty of cruelty and impeding an investigation. He was ordered dishonorably discharged. Two other sgts. were disciplined and demoted for cruelty also, another one awaiting a court-martial, and their captain was put in jail for 6 months for dereliction of duty.

Excuse me. Thats cruel? Arent drill sgts. SUPPOSED to be mean anyway? I've never been in combat, but I'm betting its a helluva lot nastier than being called names or taking a punch. Isnt it the job of a drill sgt to take people off the street and make soldiers out of them that wont crack in combat? What the heck is happening to the people in charge?

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:43:41 PM »

There is all the difference in the world between being a professional and a dirtbag. Sounds like he got what he deserved.

Fishu · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:46:59 PM »

To be mean, you don't have to use recruits as punch bags.

rshubert · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:47:58 PM »

Physical abuse of recruits was outlawed some time ago. They also, btw, found that it was actually better to use stress induced by performance demands. Drill instructors cannot hit, shake, kick, punch, slap, or push recruits around.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:56:49 PM »

First of all, I just typed what the NY Times story said he did. That doesnt mean its the way it really happened. I'm far past the point where I credit the Times with being objective. Thats why I'd like to find another source for the story. Seems to me 4 drill sgts being brought up on charges like that, and the captain being put in jail for 6 months would make network TV and be all over the internet. I havent seen one reference to it other than the Times (yet).

If that's cruel, I'd hate for those poor recruits to be sent to elementary school where I went. They'd curl up in a fetal position and scream for mommy.

Charon · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:00:39 PM »

That's not Kosher, and not "generally" necessary to accomplish the goals of basic training/AIT. Though from what I have read from SFTT and Hackworth, it has swung way too far in the direction of coddling, in general. Frankly, given where the trainees are going it's probably not all that excessive today and may be appropriate to some extent (JMO).

Charon

Dnil · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:00:47 PM »

when I went through air farce basic they couldnt even force us to do pushups as punishment. We had several TI's that were just learning from our main, one was a female. One day she called this tiny reservist we had a "little man". She was booted out of our group and lost her instructor hat. After the 1st week of sleep adjustment basic was a joke.

Oddly enough once I got to my first tech school they could make you do pushups. Never did figure that one out.

hacksaw1 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:01:57 PM »

A DI put the tip of his sword on my chest once. Beyond that, nothing but a lot of yelling, bends and thrusts, and being called maggots and ladies. One recruit in my boot camp platoon was roughed up a little. Pugil sticks is where Marine recruits get physically violent in boot camp, and in the past there have been deaths. Don't even know if they still have pugil stick bouts.

Had a friend who became a DI and used physical force on recruits. Don't recall if he was busted or courtmartialed or what. But I don't think there's really much need for physical abuse. The mental stress of having a DI two inched from your face screaming, and you cannot look at him, and constant doubletime and PT, breaks ya enough. Uuuh Rah!

Regards

Cement

Hawklore · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:08:06 PM »

The idea of a drill sgt. being mean isn't just to make the soldiers tough.

It's to get them to join together to accomplish a big goal..

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:10:32 PM »

Guess I should make this clear. I'm not supporting the idea that anyone should ever have the right to go punching people or anything like that, just because they can. Thats bullying, pure and simple.

However, unless this was a pattern that went on for some time, or he was disciplined more than once for it, I dont see that a dishonorable discharge was in order. Again, thats why I want to see another source. Theres alot more here thats not being said. This guy was a 16 year vet for cripes sake. You cant tell me someone with that much time under their belt just gets a DD for punching someone and calling somebody names? And what does it take to get a capt. put in jail??

Either something much worse happened, or this is way blown out of proportion.

AdmRose · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:13:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hacksaw1
A DI put the tip of his sword on my chest once. Beyond that, nothing but a lot of yelling, bends and thrusts, and being called maggots and ladies. One recruit in my boot camp platoon was roughed up a little. Pugil sticks is where Marine recruits get physically violent in boot camp, and in the past there have been deaths. Don't even know if they still have pugil stick bouts.

Had a friend who became a DI and used physical force on recruits. Don't recall if he was busted or courtmartialed or what. But I don't think there's really much need for physical abuse. The mental stress of having a DI two inched from your face screaming, and you cannot look at him, and constant doubletime and PT, breaks ya enough. Uuuh Rah!

Regards

Cement

They still do pugils. In my platoon in basic at Fort Jackson, we lost two recruits to pugils (one broken hand, another broken wrist) and a third was knocked out cold. DS weren't even supposed to swear at us in basic, though that rule was largely ignored.

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2005, 02:04:17 PM »

We had a DI bring his prostitute "girlfriend" over a few times per week and make us do grass drills for hours on end. I'm not sure if they got more of a thrill out of smoking us or doing it naked, except for the campaign hat, leather whip and boots of course.

Hawklore · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2005, 05:32:13 PM »

I've always wanted to just say to a DI if they yelled in my face..

Permission to speak freely sir..

Allright go ahead maggot..

Sir, when was the last time you brushed your teeth sir?

VOR · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2005, 06:12:11 PM »

There's no such thing as "speaking freely".

kevykev56 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2005, 06:12:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hawklore
I've always wanted to just say to a DI if they yelled in my face..

Permission to speak freely sir..

Allright go ahead maggot..

Sir, when was the last time you brushed your teeth sir?

Makes me think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket where Pyle cant remove the smile from his face. I really think the DI would find a way for you to "Drop" him some Tiffany cufflinks.

That was a great scene, but to quote the actual movie would surely break rule #7 and possibly others.