Author Topic: Higher Octane Gas, Mileage & Gas Prices.  (Read 1385 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Higher Octane Gas, Mileage & Gas Prices.
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2005, 08:21:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
With such high prices these days, and relatively little difference in price, is it worth spending about 9% more to get about 9% more octane?  Will the higher stuff produce better mileage?  
(I have an 89 Volvo and a 97 Ford Van)

Thanks,
eskimo

Only if the manufacturer REQUIRES a min. octane rating (High compression engines)

I must run a min. of 90 octane since I fall into this catagory.  Otherwise you're just wasting your money.

If your engine is pinging going up hill, just bump the octane up one notch (like from 87 to 89)

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2005, 09:07:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
I sincerely doubt your unbuilt 455 runs 10.5:1 stock.  Pretty sure stock for those was in the neighborhood of 8:1 which has no use for high test gas.  I don't have the book and maybe someone else knows for sure but I'll bet a neener neener on it..!



Well Rabbit, you win.  I sure as heck can't afford to bet that.  I read it in a manual somewhere I suppose.:)




Les

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2005, 09:13:07 AM »
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Originally posted by RightF00T
Karaya?  It has no benefits but I don't believe it damages the engine.


All of the negative impacts the Virgil Heights explained, will USUALLY go unnoticed.  They are not GOOD for the engine at all, hence....

Karaya
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2005, 09:18:42 AM »
There were no stock 455 Olds engines rated higher than 10.25:1.
Only a blueprinted engine will reach that. They actually run around 9.5:1. Because the Olds has a really sorry combustion chamber, they still require high octane at 9.5:1.

The low compression Olds is rated around 9:1. but is actually about 8.5:1. The 73 98 engine fits this category. And it needs the octane because the chamber sucks.

My old 455 had about 10.4:1, because I decked the block and milled the heads to spec. Makes a HUGE difference. You think you've got torque now? Still ran on 93 octane gas, although with less than stock timing.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2005, 09:31:49 AM »
FWIW:
I have a Ford Truck that, when fully loaded with the truck camper on the back, and pulling a boat, will ping when going uphill. I carry one tank of fuel with 89 octane and one with 87. When I climb big hills, I switch over to the 89 octane tank and the pinging is gone.  SOmething to think about if you're a truck owner, carrying and/or pulling a heavy load.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2005, 09:43:11 AM »
My 1973 pontiac 455 is 8.5:1, but I have to 91. Maybe the 1972 455HO had a higher CR, definitly the 1970 400.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2005, 10:06:44 AM »
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
My 1973 pontiac 455 is 8.5:1, but I have to 91. Maybe the 1972 455HO had a higher CR, definitly the 1970 400.


You need a 74 SD 455.

There were a few high compression engines built in 71, even fewer in 72, and they were gone by 73. The catalytic converter:rolleyes: arrived, necessitating the use of unleaded fuel. Lead was at the time the primary octane boosting additive.

Even before then, Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile were using lower compression than Chevrolet. Chevrolet had a thing for 11:1 and 11.5:1 compression. The others rarely exceeded 10.5:1.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2005, 10:22:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
You need a 74 SD 455.

There were a few high compression engines built in 71, even fewer in 72, and they were gone by 73. The catalytic converter:rolleyes: arrived, necessitating the use of unleaded fuel. Lead was at the time the primary octane boosting additive.

Even before then, Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile were using lower compression than Chevrolet. Chevrolet had a thing for 11:1 and 11.5:1 compression. The others rarely exceeded 10.5:1.



Yeah I dont think Pontiac ever ran a 11 to 1 motor in a factory car.

Most were 10.25 and 10.50

I think the ram air IV motors were 10.75 to 1.


the 350 horse 400 from my goat that I had rebuilt was 10.5 to 1, but I had TRW forged pistons put in on the rubuilt and had them dished, so the compression was 9.65 to 1.

Ran great on 92, when it was in tune. On really hot days though it would ping a bit, so I always had some octane boost in the trunk.


They are right, unless the car states a higher octane you are just wasting you money running it.

Offline Westy

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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2005, 01:09:10 PM »
If you are a pro-capitolist, patriotic American you will buy premium fuel whether you need it or not.


Speaking of fuel....

 Gotta give the old "attaboy" to Exxon/Mobile for a 32% jump in profits this last quarter!  They're on target for busting wide open last years world record for corporate profits. Which was over 25billion and set by Exxon/Mobile!

 And kudos to the House of Reps for approving a massive energy plan which included billions in tax breaks and subsidies to energy companies (like Exxon/Mobile).  Lawd  knows they needed it! Must be part of that trickle down economy thing they've been talking about for the past 4-5 years.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 01:13:49 PM by Westy »

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2005, 01:10:13 PM »
FYI,te SD actually started in 1973 (think screaming eagle), in 74 the body changed, the front was inclined to allow the 5mph bumper.

I checked my book, i was wrong, my 1973 455 is only 8.0 (rdy for a blower hehehe), the SD is 8.4 and the 1970 400 is 10.5:1.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline Charon

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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2005, 01:23:46 PM »
Quote
And kudos to the House of Reps for approving a massive energy plan which included billions in tax breaks and subsidies to energy companies (like Exxon/Mobile). Lawd knows they needed it! Must be part of that trickle down economy thing they've been talking about for the past 4-5 years.


And if things are still on track, an 8 Billion gallon/year ethanol mandate as well to help out ADM :aok There were a few useful items in the bill, but by and large a subsidy fest all the way around.

Charon

Offline eagl

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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2005, 03:46:04 PM »
Semi agreed with you Charon on the relative value of the energy bill...  It does some good things but it does them with tax benefits, not outright legislation.

One thing I am NOT pleased with is the funding to boost the use of ethanol in motor fuel.  Back in 1998 and 1999 before the entire country went to crappy alcohol laced fuel, I'd get up to 34 mpg in my 305hp TransAm.  The difference back then was amazing... I could fill up in CA and get barely 26-27 mpg on the freeway, but as soon as I was running nevada or arizona gas, I'd be up well above 30.  Nowadays, the best I can get is about 28 and it's all because of the non-gasoline additives that reduce the energy content of the fuel.  Alcohol oxygenates the engine which is great for emissions, but it lowers the overall ability of the engine to produce power from the fuel because there is simply less energy in alcohol than in petroleum.

When some "normal" reasonably high-output engines (power per liter) can be classed as "ultra low emission" powerplants even with today's fuel, it makes me believe that the whole ethanol in fuel (and that crap that gets put into CA gas that smells funny) thing is just a clever bit of lobbying by the farming industry.  They found that the Calif fuel additive is incredibly long-lasting in the environment and it is contaminating every water source in the state, but there are some powerful lobbying forces behind it so the environmental lobby is torn between goals - They want the water to be pure but this additive reduces emissions by a little bit.  So California get funny smelling gas and contaminated water, and someone gets rich selling a government mandated fuel additive.

As for high octane, any car with a computer that is aggressive enough to REALLY tweak the fuel/air mixture and timing will benefit from higher octane gas.  Even the 1993 nissan micra I drove around the UK for a while (a bit under 60 hp if I recall correctly) would get a measurable 5-6 hp boost from running high octane fuel instead of regular, simply because the engine control computer was aggressive enough to take advantage of the high octane.  Many cars have simpler/cheaper computers however, and they simply won't make aggressive enough corrections for the fuel to make a difference.

In my TransAm, the difference between low and high octane fuel is in the neighborhood of 30hp and 5 mpg.  The high octane fuel is much better overall, although I have noticed an increase in low rpm torque with the tax-subsidized low octane fuel I get on base here.  That makes it a bit easier to drive on a daily basis but my mileage is around 23 mpg when it should be around 27 mpg.  But there's no way in heck I'm gonna pay $7/gal for the good stuff so I'll just keep buying the cheap stuff and hope it doesn't wreck my cats and sensors.  It's already clogged my fuel filter after a year and a half but those are pretty cheap/easy to replace.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline g00b

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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2005, 04:04:39 PM »
My friend dyno'd his Ninja 600 and actually LOST horsepower with higher octane. Went from 86 to 82 if I recall...

g00b

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2005, 04:10:28 PM »
It is very possible to lose power from excess octane, because the fuel cannot be burned properly.

We have crate engine:rolleyes: classes around here, and it took quite some time to convince people that race gas was unnecessary and cost them power. I proved that on the dyno.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2005, 04:33:59 PM »
My '90 Cadillac was supposedly an 8.5:1 compression ratio and yet it needed 91 octane fuel (and I did get pinging if I pushed it when running on 87).  It had the 4.5 litre v-8 and was rated for like 190 horsepower.  That engine must have really sucked...but then I suppose that's to be expected, most engines built in the '80's sucked.  I still miss that car.  Even the way the gas pedal was heavy yet hyper-sensative to the smallest movement was just perfect.

The LT1 in the Buick runs fine on 87 with a 10.5:1 ratio.  It spins the tires of this massive car with remarkable ease.  It also gets better mileage than the Cadillac, despite being much more displacement (350 cid versus 273) and moving an additional thousand pounds of car.  

If I could have had that LT1 engine in the '90 Cadillac, it would have been the perfect car.

J_A_B