China and Cuba

[GRUNHERZ]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the very determined Cuban exile community in Florida and the USA in general, one must remember who Castro kicked out of his "Socialist Wonderland"- wealthy politically connected   families who then escaped to the USA. Is it so hard to imagine that they had an impact in the formation and subsequent continuation of such policies?
Another reason were so cozy with China is due to our pseudo-allience with them against the Russians. Its a little known fact but China and Russia were were nearly in a real war during the 1960s, over some ideological differences between the Glorious Chairman Mao and his Soviet counterparts. The USA stepped in and took advantage of this conflict to gain an opening with China- thats how and why we had Nixon's and Kissenger's trips to China in the 1970s.
Then of course there is the economic and trade issue, for all intensive purpose Cuba's sole exports of interest to the USA was cane sugar and cigars  , plus the seized economic interests of several US companies in Cuba, and the Mob's casinos. So not having any realitionship with Cuba does little economic harm to the USA. However this situation may be coming to an end.

Soon the USA may be putting itself in a short term economic disadvantage vis-a-vis Europe and several other economic poweres when it comes to investment in Cuban business and real estate. The last few years have seen an explosion of European and Canadian investement and tourism in Cuba. By the time Cuba and the USA resume political and economic relations the Europeans may have a substantial economic advantge within the Cuban market. Though it seems clear this will only be a temporary advantage for Europe. One cannot ignore the economic impact of the US economy poised only 90 miles tho the north north, so eventually and inevitably become the dominant factor in the Cuban marketplace.

But why wait?

I find it entertaining to see US government officials refer to China as a "Strategic Partner" while calling Cuba an opressive Human rights something or other" Its very very funny.

[Toad]

Yeah, what ever would we do without all the Beenie Babies we get from China? End of US civilization!

Fortunately, the Chinese don't need the US currency they get from this trade at all.

 

[mrfish]

you should actually go to china - then you would never fear them again.

when i drove throughout the mainland in the southern part of the country - around gong yi, taishan etc near canton - all i noticed were thousands(literally) of factories of american, german, british and french companies.

notice how everything in your house was made in china?  

you see, right now there are a bunch of guys in china who would love for you to go on thinking it is a big nemesis in the east - they are the lowest of the lows: western business men - yeck.

someday maybe they will make a video game where the chinese are the bad guys, or maybe a chuck norris movie where he saves the world from the chinese to better form our perceptions the way they would like them

the chinese highway system is littered with places all catering to western businessmen.

Q:did i expect to find a pool hall serving imported beer and lattes by the name of 'billiards' 200 miles inland?

A: no.

Q: did i?

A:yes.

"why are all these highway signs in english?"  i kept asking myself. wouldnt want those diddlys in their 3 piece thieving suits to get lost would ya?

they dont want you to go there because they dont want you to see that china is a giant westerner's industrial park filled with incredibly poor people just fighting to get by.your opinion might chnange drastically and they can't afford to risk any profit...

and i mean they are  - poor - they wouldn't hold up in a war for ten seconds because WE ARE their infrastructure. they have based their country's economy on being the cheapest source of labor

all we have to do is pull our factories out of china and they would fold. and so would we probably because our economies are addicted to each other.

as for the oppressive government? they are oppressive but the realize with the success of hong kong that they have to change - notice nothing's changed in hong kong or the new territories area since the take-over???hmmmmmmmm

 the police are pretty loose actually throughout the country and do very little about flagrant capitalism right in front of them. capitalism is fine in china as long as your booth is red,  and has  picture of mau somewhere. the government is old-school and they just use that capitalism line to get rid of people they dont like -

i watched the news on tv over there and watching the new and improved government was like trying to watch your grandpa talk in rapper slang or something. seemed forced but at least they were trying.
 
they would parade the airwaves with stories about how some farmer went against the system and the government listened to him and changed things.  the guy would be standing there in his farmer outfit shaking his hand and taking propaganda pictures.on the day i arrived there was a big deal because they release a prisoner that had tried to stir the democracy movement over the internet - he served 2 years in jail and they were very open about it and even acknowledged that people disapproved.

i dont want to defend them, but they are way out of step and run by old stiff guys and they dont quite get it yet but the culture will force a change.

i just hate to see a country like china - where everyone was extremely cool including the soldiers(who often speed americans through customs because we are their favorite) downed by people who are being good little tools and buying the u.s. propaganda hook line and sinker.

it's a lot more complicated than you think. if you tire of swallowing the filth the nightly news throws at you, or the smell of the sheeps bellybutton in front of you in the herd, then get a ticket and go there - they won't bite you, it's a beautiful country and you might learn something.

or better yet - pick up your made in china phone and call any corporation in this country and ask them about their holdings in china:
- how many factories and subsidiaries are there?
- how many people do you employ?
- what is their average wage?
- how much does your corporation save annually in taxes and wage differential by building your widgets in china?
- did china's civil rights practices sway your decision do business there?

you won't get anywhere btw - you will get some smiley PR guy if you are lucky but more likely you will get kathy the secretary (if anyone)who can't wait to get home and watch lifetime, have a red baron pizza and continue ignoring you and worrying about her weight.

you should wonder why.

sorry for the long post, but the reality is way off from what you are led to believe in the states.

[Raubvogel]

Well Mr Fish, that was what I was trying to say, but you put it far me eloquently than I. Well said!

[Tac]

"they wouldn't hold up in a war for ten seconds because WE ARE their infrastructure. they have based their country's economy on being the cheapest source of labor "

Umm.. I dont think so. 1st thing they'd do is confiscate all the factories and use them to either make war materials or use the produced goods to sell them somewhere else. Either way, the infrastructure is IN China, the consumers in the US. You can find the consumers elsewhere, but the US cant move or find the already built infrastructure anywhere else in a timely fashion (so US economy dont hurt).

All else, I agree mrfish.

[StSanta]

MrFish, ever spent much time deep in rural China?  .

I can guarantee you that imported beer and English roadsigns are are rare as brain cells in a boy band member.

 .

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"You filthy piece of distended rectum! DIE allierte schweinhund!"

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:
MrFish, ever spent much time deep in rural China?   .

I can guarantee you that imported beer and English roadsigns are are rare as brain cells in a boy band member.

  .

lol - very true santa. however imported beer and english roadsigns are rare in rural america as well  

rural china was like a weird nightmare. i went to visit my wife's family in a rural dive along the pearl river. near a bananna plantation - they had 'cars' which were basically an engine from a tractor (i'm guessing tractor - it was a straight six huge bore thing)bolted to the chassis of some stripped toyota or something. like mad max road warrior stuff. they drove over the grass as there are no roads around and used boats.

even in towns there are roads but no traffic signs - which can get confusing when the farmers come to town with their livestock on their backs and everyone on bikes.

also running water and sewage are a luxury in many places. it was weird though - i have a picture of a guy standing in the road out in nowheres-ville china with chickens running around like the stone age and the guy is on a cell phone - even in the sticks!

in another instance i stopped at a gas station deep in the mainland that had no running water and a bucket round back for the toilet and looked like it would collapse - yet they had a freezer inside full of sprite pepsi ice cream- you name it! the north - closer to the capital is different i hear and more militaristic though i cant say 1st hand.

go to china sometime - it is like getting sucked into a salvador dali painting  

[Creamo]

Greetings from Hong Kong. What a perfect place and time to log in and read this thread.

The Hobbled is a Godsend to the AH bbs. Just as rametz4 exits, we get instant entertainment replacment from a complete fool. Hating a billion people for no reason, not wanting to trade with a country that generates billions in products, AND then ol' mr.fish gets a rubber dink thrown at him to boot! oooh man.....

As far as I can tell this is one clean, organised, great place with really great people. Structured organised, and friendly. I could do without the machine guns, but then again no one is acting a fool anywhere either. Always amazed at how good the service and politness of people is overseas.

Personally, I can tell you we are more than happy to be starting a non-stop flight to TaiPei from San Jose as it's a huge computer/technology base and will help a diving silicon valley. Depends on where your at I guess. Pry not that big a concern down there in a dry creek bed shootin up tin cans in  Victoria, Texas eh Hobbled?

---

[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 03-24-2001).]

[Dowding]

Wobbly doesn't just shoot tin cans, he's also a shirtless internet stock broker, with a suped up pick-up truck and a very wealthy girlfriend.

He's a great guy, so leave him alone.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-25-2001).]

[StSanta]

LOL Dali painting  . Succintly put  .

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"You filthy piece of distended rectum! DIE allierte schweinhund!"

[Animal]

LOL DOWDING!!!!!!

I think its appropiate I post this:

     

Me and My GF are moving to Austin soon and both bought pistols to keep at home and in car, well today I decided to take her out for some target practice, we drove a way out into the country and I drove My 4x4 down into a dry creek bed, we found a few old cans and started plinking away, her with H&K 40 and Me with My new Glock 40, after about 20 min we ran out of targets (cans don't last long against bullets that size) I looked in my truck bed and saw this small aerosol type can that had been rattling around there so long that the nozzle had broken off and all the paint had been worn away. So I took this small silver can and put it on a stump about 40 feet away and said, "lets see who can hit it first" Me ad her began tapping away at it and on the 5 shot I hit it and POOF! the canister was gone and a large red mist blew into the air, like a total handsomehunk i started walking twords it when suddenly it hit me PEPPER SPRAY, it was an old but quite full pepper spray can my GF had a while back, I was already too close to the cloud to react so immediately all my exposed skin began to sting and my lungs burned like hell, I was quite sweaty with no shirt so that just made things worse[/i], Anywho it was a most disagreeable experience that did not end till I took a long shower about half an hour later.

I printed this beautiful poetry and keep it inside my pocket all the time. Everytime my day goes wrong, I take it out and read it. Tears of joy drip from my eyes.        


About this "China is a giant pile of toejam, bush wants to trade with them..." Well Wobbly, of course you were gonna get a reaction, specially from Mrfish since his wifey is Chinese. Sorry it backfired; Guppy and his wife are both collectively smarter than 10 people randomly chosen in this BBS. And she was born in CHINA.
C'mon Wobble, you might as well come out here in a BBS and say it where nobody will do you anything: "I am a closed minded bigot and I also hate ANYTHING and ANYONE that is not from the US or its closest allies. I am also quite shirtless and sweaty"



[This message has been edited by Animal (edited 03-25-2001).]

[Tac]

no offense, but every time I try to picture wobble the image of CHICKEN  (from cartoon COW AND CHICKEN) come to my mind... with a dixie flag on his chest.    

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by Dowding:
Wobbly doesn't just shoot tin cans, he's also a shirtless internet stock broker, with a suped up pick-up truck and a very wealthy girlfriend.

i can't stop laughing...stop...the imagery....too much...losing bowel control

animal: thanks, kind words, though most people on this bbs know more than anyone i know in day to day life about a range of things, especially poitics and history - it is a constant source of learning for me <S> bbs -  

[SOB]

Oh crap, Cow & Chicken will never be the same again  

"ooooh Chiiiic-keeen!  Deed you know that Chaina is a giant pile of shiiit?  Oh how I Haaate China!"

[Toad]

 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

 http://www.uschina.org/press/trade7.html

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 03-25-2001).]