Sick and Tired of Running La7's?

[Vudak]

We need a PJ University for La7's, D9's, Typhoons, Nikis, EVERYTHING.

If the vets who know these planes inside and out step forward and put out courses on these planes, complete with AH2 films and screenshots, I'll bet the fights and the MA in general will become very much more fun.

Now I don't have the experience to really contribute to any articles.  I do however have the time to be the bad guy in the films or screenshots that would be included.

It would be great if eventually all the planes had their own course and all these courses were brought together under one webpage.

I'd suggest starting with the worst "offenders" like La7's and D9's....  Know how to knife fight a Spit in one?  Hammer out an article...  Know a plane-specific merge?  Hammer out an article...  Piece them together on the message board with other vets, figure out what the curriculum should be...  Create a lasting impression on the flight sim community for as long as the webpage is remembered...

The main question for you great sticks out there being: "Ok, so you're good enough to kill....  Are you expert enough to teach? "

[DamnedRen]

Furstration aside it's a nice thought. Unfortunately, you gotta learn to crawl before you can walk then run.

Yanking and turning right doesn't help you understand the concept of what you're trying to accomplish. That's why flight training begins with BFM and progresses to ACM. Until you understand why things happen as they do you will always be "looking" for magic turn that will help you win.

We have many expert trainers in AH2. Why not get with one and get some help. They can be emailed at trainers@hitechcreations.com.

Hope this helps.

Im editing this to add:

While AH2 is a game. They do a fine job of simulating the physics of flight. That being the case, if you really want to be really good you need to take the time to learn the right way of flying.
During the Vietnam War there were a lot fighter pilots flying around. But there were not many "shooters". Shooters were the guys who had learned the advanced stuff and were assigned to shoot down enemy planes because of their advanced training and skills. You might consider the vets in this game as the "shooters". An old saying still holds true. Stick time is everything. Quality stick time is rare and must be taught.
You have the opportunity to learn and fly like the old shooters but it's a learned skill.

[Vudak]

I'd be happy to get some duels in with you Ren, I'm sure you'd have a lot to teach me as would all the trainers, but I have to at least give myself credit of at least starting to take some wobbling steps on the "walk" stage at the moment.  

If you click on the link though, you'll notice freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior courses.  The freshman could equate to the "crawl" while the senior would go into the "run".

I'm not looking for a "magic" move but what I am saying is that they *do* "exist" for certain planes...  There are some manuevers that work very well for certain planes that don't in others, etc.  While of course you are quite right that there is no replacement for stick time, I'd argue that having something that you can print out and study during a break at work/school/on the can/whatever will be very beneficial to getting you through the stages.

The thing is, like you said, quality stick time must be taught.  Now if you have no idea what the basic premise is for such advanced moves, you can never try to learn them.  If you have a written explanation, and a film, you can then go in with a trainer and be prepared better and thus learn easier and more quickly.  You always will do better in life if you do your homework.

The problem is, there just isn't that much "advanced" homework out there to study.  Soda's page is great, don't get me wrong, but even he admits that his advice may not reflect the capabilities of any given plane in a vet's hands.  His page is therefore more of a "SparkNotes" - which is definately great and a wonderful service to the community...  But sometimes you just have to read the novel, you know?

I understand that much of learning advanced tactics in any plane comes from experience and feel, but I also have to say that there are some of us who would readily gobble up any information that's printed on them.  I'd just like to see some "courses" or "chapters" written by "shooters" that explain roughly what they're trying to accomplish and how they propose to go about doing it.  Obviously only practice will result in it working for you, but the more senses involved (reading, seeing, doing), the easier it is to learn anything also.

Anyway, I'll be shooting the trainers an email to get some dueling/fighting practice in before the next KoTH

[Mustaine]

you can't really say "how to beat a spit V in a 190 D"... just because you can beat some 1 way, but guys like levi, you can not use the same tactics.

it is more about knowing your enemy, and his fighting style.

right off the merge you can tell if you are dealing with an "ace" or a n00b.

let's just take an amature pilot, and go in a dora vs him. the more aggressive you are, the more you will spook him into making a mistake. with the aces, you have to be aggressive or you will lose the advantage (you are comming in faster and/or higher in the 190d correct?)... but if you are too aggressive, you can give them a shot.

i am just giving a quick example in the dora the plane i know the best, but you see what i am saying, and what my opinion is on it.

anyway, i am bad at verbalizing how i fly, very bad LOL, and there are many many pilots better than me.

good luck with it sir

[Vudak]

I think I'm having problems explaining myself as well

Basically, click on the link I provided.  Then ask, "why isn't there a page like this for every plane in the set?"

Just trying to get the ball rolling so to speak

[BTW]

Looks like a great site. Even though its created for the p38, I'm sure the techniques written about there would be helpful to most pilots. Thanks for the link.

[DamnedRen]

Vudak,

First of all I'm sorry I'm taking so long to respond. I finally have my desk clean and can spend a few minutes before our fleet launches for our inbound hub turn.

I'd be happy to spend time you with you in the TA. All we need to do is decide on a time.

As far as movies and reading material go, they are all great and have their place. But they lack one thing. The "why" the pilot is doing what he's doing. Think of it like this. You take a ride as an "observer" (OBS) to see how one guy fights. Granted you might not have all the gauges showing you just what the pilot is doing but you do have the same views. But, there is a huge difference in what the both of you are seeing. Yes. you both see(for instance) 5 enemy planes out there within 3k of you. You look at them all and see 4 threats. He sees 1. The reason? He is seeing things, due to his experience level, that you aren't picking up. The exact opposite might happen. You might see 1 threat and he sees 4! How many folks have taken a ride with a vet or trainer and at the end of the ride said, "you sure make it look so easy". Well, guess what? It is! When you learn how. What's the best way to learn? Grab a trainer and get an evaluation and go from there.

First a trainer will determine a starting point from whatever level he thinks your at. From there you will begin working on basics all the way up to advanced fighting. You will discuss a particular manuever or tactic then fly against him. This is where you will begin to see why the trainer can help you. If the lesson deals with lift vector he may do merges and watch your reversal back in. At some point he may begin saying, "roll more into the lead" as he can see exactly what you are doing.  Right then something may go click in your mind and you will understand exactly what the lesson and tactic was all about. After it clicks that particular maneuver gets easier.

So here's the issues. Everytime you fly and get stick time you just a lil bit more about your plane. Every time you get a lesson you learn a lil bit more about how to use your plane to its strengths. But! And there's a big BUT! You can easily get more information handed to you than you can possibly absorb. Once that happens anything else that is fed to you is completely lost.

The correct way to get it and keep it is to get a lesson.
Learn from the lesson.
Take what you learn to the MA and work with it.
At some point you will reach a point that you think things just ain't working" again.
Go back and take another lesson.

What happens is what you learn really stays with you an you do ok until you reach a plateau. A trainer can get you up and over that plateau so you continue to progress. Over a given period, and we're not saying a few months either,  you will become a proficient "vet" in your own right.

Besides it's not just about yanking the stick. it's SA. Absolutely knowing the strengths of your plane against the weaknesses of his plane. Knowing how to take a disvantage and turn it into and advantage. You should be able to instantly size up everything thats going on around you. Knowing when to bug, how to bug....there's a hundred different things that come together to "make that ride you just took look so easy".

Hope this helps.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by DamnedRen

Hope this helps.

What Ren said!

Ren, you almost described to a T the way my session went with 2 inspiring  online Fighter Pilots, from the evaluation check , to the lesson, to the use it in the MA, to the SA bit and on to plane characteristics ...........

was you in my head the past 1 1/2 hours? ( kidding )

excellent points you have made here Sir!

[Vudak]

Hey Ren,

I took your advice, emailed the trainers and managed to catch a session with TC tonight - just got out of it actually.

We have another one scheduled for Monday and I can see what you are saying.  It is one thing to read about a lead turn for example, and another thing for someone to say "TURN" when it's time to.  Then of course, you have this on film so you can go back and check it out.

I think I'll be spending quite alot of time with you trainers for the foreseeable future.  I don't really know what your whole policy is on having different trainers at the same time but regardless I'd at least like to get you into the DA or TA for a few one on one's, where maybe you could give me some pointers like you said.

Thanks,

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Vudak

I think I'll be spending quite alot of time with you trainers for the foreseeable future.  I don't really know what your whole policy is on having different trainers at the same time but regardless I'd at least like to get you into the DA or TA for a few one on one's, where maybe you could give me some pointers like you said.

Thanks,

There is no policy, The Trainers are a team we all work together and encourage everyone who wants to learn to learn from   each of us.......

Ren is  TOPSHELF,  you will enjoy his lessons, Vudak!

see ya Monday, ( btw read Rens lil saying under his messageboard name on the left )

[DamnedRen]

Vudak,

NP, all of our trainers are well versed in helping folks out. We're there to help you learn and make the game more fun. Glad you got together with our head trainer

And, you are right!

Read what you can.
Get someone who knows how it should be done
Get up and fly it and respond to his inputs
Look at what you're doing as you do it. Kinda step back and think about what you;ve been taught and you will see how it works in action.
Film everything and look at what you could have done better or different. Then get back up and try out those things you might have done better.

[Murdr]

PJU....ahhh the memories

[pellik]

Why would you want to learn how to fly planes other then the PJ?

[BTW]

Some people like mini vans and others like porsches.
P38 is kinda big for one person, don't you think?

[pellik]

The PJ is everything good to everybody. It's like a ferrari mini-van made in the good old USA.