Hi Hang,
Originally posted by Hangtime
By 'providence' you are refering to religious influence? I ask because what you seem to suggest is that there's more than a passing correlation between 'conservative right' and 'religious right'?
If not that, then a 'liberal/unsaved' connection?
enh.. still not getting it right. Umm... is it possible there's no religious liberals?
Ruff concepts to get a handle on... interesting food for thought tho.
When I use the word providence, I use it in the Christian theistic sense to mean "God's preserving and governing all his creatures, and all their actions." i.e. that the affairs of this world are not random or arbitrary and that what happens to us and the way we turn out is part of a grand design. So while the materialist says "chance" and the stoic "fate," I say "providence."
In this case I meant to point out that were people simply the product of environment, education, and upbringing alone, then all of those factors should have conspired to create two liberals, and yet we both turned out quite conservative.
Now on the other point you made, Christianity presupposes a correlation between sincere conversion and a change of worldview, ethics, and behavior. For instance Ezekiel 36:26-27 which speaks of the process of regeneration (i.e. being "born again" via the work of the Holy Spirit) states:
"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." What this means is that the bible presupposes that men who formerly did "what was right in their own eyes" will, after being converted, (however imperfectly) begin to believe the Word of God and act according to
His Will. You see this reflected in the fact that the first Christians were called "those in the way" (i.e. those walking (acting) according to the "way of eternal life"). The bible assumes that prior to regeneration, one could not walk according to the commandments of the Lord and would have no desire to do so, but that afterwards the genuine convert now has the will, desire, and ability to do so.
So one may, and indeed probably will, dismiss all of this as "supernatural bunk" but experientially, I've lived it out. The things in keeping with God's commands I formerly hated, I now love, and the rebellious things I once loved, I now hate. This change inevitably has worldview, behavioral, and political ramifications. For instance, prior to conversion, charity was very low (alright, non-existent) on my priorities list and putting others ahead of myself was just not going to happen. After conversion they both became things I desired to do, not because I wanted others to think well of me, but in simply living out a new nature and as a way of loving and obeying God. So too, there are certain things considered societally acceptable that I simply cannot embrace or endorse, abortion and euthanasia being two easy examples, but both being issues where my attitudes were once diametrically different.
Now as to your question are there no religious liberals? Obviously there are, and I have many brothers and sisters in Christ who are considerably to the left of me politically. Here it will be helpful to distinguish between commands and matters of indifference. For instance, there is nothing in the Word of God that states private citizens
must own guns, and indeed if Caesar commands that I hand over my guns, I will regretfully do so. I know of British evangelicals who are also ardent supporters of banning private ownership of guns for instance, so there are many places where sincere Christians can honestly differ on political matters - these are "matters of indifference" from a biblical point of view. However, when we are talking about the
commands of God there should be no difference in the response of Christians. Here our worldview and politics should be uniform. For instance, homosexual marriage is contrary to the commands of God, if I claim therefore to be living out the Christian faith by supporting it, then I am either painfully uniformed as to what the Word actually teaches or simply disobeying that word. What I am actually doing is acting
contrary to the faith.
Most of those, however, who identify themselves as religious liberals tend to be anti-supernaturalists as well, therefore they either do not accept the authority of the bible or only accept the portions of the word they themselves happen to agree with. Many these days, are actually political liberals or conservatives first and foremost and drag Christianity along in the train rather than having the faith be the leader. So, for instance, there are many who use the faith as a cover-all for the promotion of other ideologies. Liberation theologians who use Christianity to promote Marxism, "Christian Identity" members who use Christianity to promote racism, and so on. Both of these ideologies are actually
contrary to the teachings of the Bible and genuine Christianity, but that is unimportant given that the ideology is actually their priority and Christianity is only the vehicle for promoting it.
- SEAGOON
