As for Nashwan, aka Hop, aka Lord Haw-Haw the various nick he used on other boards, the same story. No evidence, but would like to dismiss Pips`s finding from the Australian archieves. He isn`t thinks twice when it comes being liar, or to come up with NAZI accusations instead of real arguements, but that`s another matter. In short, he is a moral piece of **** I`d not even touch with a stick.
Don't think I've ever gone by the name Lord Haw Haw, I think that would suit your style better. I post on forums as Hop or Nashwan, and have never made any secret of the fact I use both names, and in fact point it out to people if they know me by a different name from elsewhere.
Now this guys claims Wood and Dampster says 22 000 tons would be enough for 6000 sorties a week - bullocks as WandD notes 22000 tons being used up, but doesn`t say anything about how much it was good for.
No, I said Wood and Dempster said 22,000 used, I didn't say they gave the figure for how many sorties. English isn't your first languauge so I'll forgive you for this.
Which brings a question how much 22000 tons were worth. In 1944, the 8th FC used up 20 000 tons of fighter fuel a SINGLE month.
How much fuel did a Mustang or Thunderbolt carry compared to a Spitfire I or Hurricane I? And that ignores the numbers.
FC had about 600 - 700 fighters operational, the 8th would fly far more sorties than that in a day, sometimes that many on a single raid.
Yet we are to believe that by some miracle, 1940, 2/3s of this amount was enough for not ONE month but FOUR...
When the Spitfire and Hurricanes carry less than a quarter as much fuel, and there are far fewer of them, why not? (from memory the P-47 with tanks could carry as much as six times the fuel of a 1940 Spitfire or Hurricane)
And it's three months, 10th July to 10th October, that's 3 months by our calendar.
Moreover both posters are selective qouting the thread, Neil Stirling`s posts to be precise who denies the gradual standardization of 100 octane... but his posts also contained the list of the 100 octane reserves that stood at 500 000 tons in Nov 1940, which the British estimated to be enough for 80 weeks at present consumption.
No, not ignoring it at all, Isegrim.
This gives the fuel consumption in early Nov 1940 as 500 000 t/ 80 weeks = 6250 tons per week.
Right. That probably fits with the average of 2,500 tons a month for the whole of 1940, consumption would have increased towards the end of the year because of the gradual switch over throughout the RAF.
We also know that by that time, most of Fighter Command was running on 100 octane (funny these guys don`t debate this from the Australian Archives, just the parts they don`t like).
Well all, or almost all, I think.
Obviously, if 22 000 tons was suplied during July-October (3 months or 12 weeks), and 6250 tons was consumed every week by the time FC completely switched over... well 22 000 t supplied / 6250 tperweek = 3.5 weeks of consumption provided every fighter is supplied with 100 octane fuel.
In other words, the 22 000 months supplied during the Battle was enough for less than a month (let`s remember the 8th FC and the ADGB consumed 32 000 tons in a single month in mid1944)...
Slight logical flaw here. You are ASSuming 6250 tons a week in November 1940 was just for Fighter Command. Do you have any evidence to support that? The report certainly doesn't say it.
Of course, the more likely conclusion is that Fighter Command was burning about 1 - 2,000 tons a week, and the rest of the RAF, as well as the aircraft and engine makers, were burning the rest.
Moroever it agrees with the 1941 British records found in Australian archives, which state 25% of the fighters using the stuff shortly before BoB,
Do the records show that? I don't think Pips has ever provided them, has he?
I suspect the records show 25% of the RAF burning 100 octane, not 25% of fighter command.
It probably grow 50%, then 75% and finally to 100% by the end of November. On avarage, it was probably around 35% as the sources notes, given that the first abroad shipments only arrived late in the Battle, in August and September.
The problem with this is the Wood and Dempster figure. If 22,000 tons for fighter command was only powering a third of their sorties for the period, then you get about 220,000 FC sorties in 13 weeks during the BoB, or about 17,000 a week.
But the records don't show anything like that number of sorties, in fact they show about 4,000 a week.
To summerize, a wartime British report on fuel situation from 1941 notes that around 125 fighter of the FC had 100 octane before the battle,
No, to summarize an Australian claims that an Australian report says that. British reports say an average of 2,500 tons used a week, 500,000 tons in stock by November 1940, 22,000 tons used by FC in 13 weeks, enough for 1.5 times the number of operational sorties they actually flew.
It makes sense, it`s supported by WandD figures of 100 octane usage in the Battle compared to avarage British fuel consumption in November.
Wood and Dempster specifically say fuel for Fighter Command, the November report is for all British consumption.
The RAF had other commands in 1940, bombers, transports, coastal, etc, plus industry always used some for engine testing etc.
They are unable to show fuel deliveries, They are unable/unwilling to show the relative fuel usage of 87/100 octane fuel, they are unable to show serious evidence like how much fuel was issued in July, August, September or October.
Well, Isegrim, Neil has shown fuel stocks, and fuel consumption, for 1940. Mike has shown usage in 18 Spitfire squadrons during the BoB.
You have reposted a precis from an Australian, that hasn't been backed up by any original documents.
Moreover we see that they cannot give reasonable answers to why some docoments disagrees with their claims,
What documents? Don't you mean Pips interpretation of some documents? He hasn't actually quoted anything, just given his interpretation. And so far he still hasn't backed it up.
Current SpitV at +16 boost flies 290 without wep and 309 with wep. on the deck. Full out.[/quotes]
Sounds a bit slow. AA 878, a Spit VC with 4 20mm cannon, did 317 mph at sea level at 16 lbs, and AA878 was slower than several other tested Spit Vs.
