NY being sued because of subway bag searches

[GRUNHERZ]

Then:

Teh Boosh is is teh eviul for not preventing 911!!!!

Now:

Teh Boosh it teh evil for triying to prevent new attacks!!!!

[Holden McGroin]

I thought it was Bloomberg...

[GRUNHERZ]

Aye!! Teh republican is teh eval!!!

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Skydancer
Lawyers pfffft

Talking of New york did anyone see that the British govt is a tad P O d with the NYPD. Apparently they've published details of how the bombs in london were made! Doesn't seem a very bright thing to do!

I think HMG's addiction to secrecy a worrying trend in a Democracy; and I'm surprised that you're more irritated with the yanks for telling you details which you have a right to know than you are with HMG wich is intent on keeping you in the dark.

Sometimes; you really push it; Skydancer.

[Eagler]

ya ain't seen nothing yet ...

wait until a bomb does go off on a train/subway/bus/in a  mall/movie theater here in the states ... maybe then the whiners will wake up ... probably not, not until it affects them personally

anyone hear Blair on the news this morning? Told the hate monders to stop preaching death to the brits in England, if not they will be exported.. too bad we don't say the same thing BEFORE we take another hit and not have to wait until afterwards..

[JimBear]

ya aint seen nothing yet ....

wait until you need your internal security passport to access public transport of facilities of any kind. provide a retina scan to enter the airport and support a detailed background check and track of your purchases and phone history when requesting a government service. I know lets hire the nkvd retirees and show us how to really clamp down on things and keep us safe in our beds. That is if your not to paranoid to open the pressure seal on your plastic wrapped house (in case of that anthrax attack doncha know) and go make that request.

What kind of country are you willing to live in?  Honestly

[Shamus]

I think we need to suspend the Bill of Rights untill this war on terrorism has been won. The security of the majority is more important than the freedom of the minority.

shamus

[Mustaine]

i am curious, all you against bag searches in this heightened time of danger, what is your perfect answer?

let them waltz in and out of wherever with bombs and whatever else they want?

dont even try to say we "should have stopped them years ago" or some other trite thing. you KNOW there is no way to stop all illegal immigrants especially with your thinking.

i really want to hear how you propose to make it remotely safe in public places where terrorists want to maim and kill innocent bystanders.

[lazs2]

I actually agree with charon and sandie on this one..  I don't know if that is a first or not... probly is in sandies case.

I agree with charon that the lawsuits are a viable and correct way to establish the extent of a law.

I agree with sandie that one measure of freedom is not being unreasonably searched... I won't even get on another plane if I can possibly help it because of the third world armed camp atmosphere that so many of us seem to be willing to put up with.  

Random searches make me think of corny old movies of everyone being searched in nazi occupied countries in WWII.

lazs

[Mini D]

It's a bit of a catch-22. With freedom comes opportunity to do both good and bad. The searches in the subways do reduce freedom and does insert another wedge into the crack of the door that protects personal privacy.

But, when another bomb goes off in a subway, who is going to be held responsible? We all know, from the last elections, that this can't be the fault of the terrorists and must be the fault of the elected body in charge.

Do nothing: get blamed. Do something: Get blamed.

It's a lose-lose situation. I think the democrats should actually be releived they don't have someone in office trying to deal with this. Now, no matter what, they can sit back and criticize.

As for "bush standing on the rubble...": someone doesn't know very much about NYC politics. If this is happening, it's VERY MUCH a bi-partison action. I don't think any mayer with a subway system or a public train system watched the news in regards to London and didn't think the exact same thing.

[Charon]

I think we need to suspend the Bill of Rights untill this war on terrorism has been won. The security of the majority is more important than the freedom of the minority.

Hey, it works for North Korea! A troll I hope.

I personally don't think the searches are all that unreasonable of an invasion of privacy given their limited scope and the public utility nature and the fact that citizens have alternative, private modes of transportation. I would imagine the courts would agree. Now, there are areas of the Patriot Act that bother me, but that’s been done to death already.

In some ways the lawsuit works against the very ideals that those bring it are fighting for. If it wins, then laws will have to be made to make such searches legal, then the can of worms is really opened up big time.

No, this lawsuit is how democracy works. The judgement can be appealed up to the highest court in the land. That's how we know the specifics of things that are generally stated. The can of worms is opened when a cop riding down the street decides to search my house because he doesn’t like my “looks” and I have no recourse to challenge his actions in the courts.

Freedom isn't easy. You exchange some degree of risk and disorder for -- freedom. Because we live in a free society people will have an easier time blowing us up. I can live with that pretty broadly because I don’t like the alternative. We can live in as secure an environment as we want. North Koreans and the Chinese are, by and large, happy with their security. A friend’s wife is from China, little Red Guard and all, and she is uncomfortable with the messiness we have in our society. Things like being able to demonstrate and disrupt traffic etc. Here parents plan on moving back to her homeland for retirement. Different strokes for different folks. The Germans were more than happy to get back to order and security in the 1930s after the messiness of the Weimar Republic. Can't get the Kaiser back, how about this Hitler chap?

At some point though, when things start to get too secure for my tolerance level, I would be looking pretty hard at emigrating to one of the remaining democratic countries.

Charon

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Sandman
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Define "Unreasonable".

[Mustaine]

the question is then, if we get rid of those airline searches, and your wife or someone close is killed by a terrorist, the government can say, "oh well at least she died free." and in the line of thinking it is against the terrorists rights to be searched, it is the bill of rights fault your loved one is dead.



i think there is something to be said for national security. this is not an anarchist country, and it is the job of some part of govenrment to defend it's citizens

what is the best way to do that?

as i asked sandman and charon, and oters, what is their magical answer?

[lazs2]

I guess what it boils down to is that people who ride subways deserve anything that happens to em...  being searched or blown up can't be much worse than using public transportation in the first place.

lazs

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by lazs2
I guess what it boils down to is that people who ride subways deserve anything that happens to em...  being searched or blown up can't be much worse than using public transportation in the first place.

lazs

can't disagree there