Author Topic: NY being sued because of subway bag searches  (Read 1754 times)

Offline Sandman

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2005, 01:08:53 PM »
This just in... it's no longer the "War on Terror".

It is now the "Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism".


You see... there was really no way of knowing if we win the former and there's no winning or losing the latter.

:aok
sand

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2005, 01:19:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Do you truly believe that terrorists think they'll win the public support with their ideology (closer to theology) by blowing stuff up?  No, you're wrong. Terrorists use fear for a completely different reason.

The Gov't doesn't use fear to get civilians to follow an ideology or specific theology,  nor does it practice and pressure the public to combine religion with politics. Quite the opposite, Gov't's job is to separate church from state, and that in itself is the biggest thorn in fanatical muslims ideology.


Yeah, you inserted religion. I am right. The government is using fear to get bills passed, a war started, and to make people more complacent with search and siezures minus a warrant. Etc.

I am right. You just want to argue some other imaginary angle.
-SW

Offline Yeager

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2005, 01:22:56 PM »
The government is using fear
====
"I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when ...

it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Only I will remain."
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline ASTAC

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #63 on: August 05, 2005, 02:24:57 PM »
All they need is what any other government owned property has. A sign that states:

Entry Constitutes consent to search.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Torque

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2005, 03:30:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Like I said... if you depend on the government to get you around then you probly got to expect that they will treat you as they please.

lazs


so why whine about helmets then?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2005, 06:51:21 PM »
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Originally posted by Toad
Thrawn, do  you think there should be searches at airports? The searches that are already going on?


Thrawn?

Offline Holden McGroin

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2005, 09:09:15 PM »


Didn't Benny have something to say about security vs. liberty?
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline lazs2

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2005, 09:41:59 AM »
Ok torque I'll bite... how are helmets or even seat belts the same as random search?  

lazs

Offline Thrawn

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2005, 12:23:13 PM »
Sorry for the delay Toad, I don't know.  I can't come up with a conclusive answer and I've been thinking about it for days.

Offline Thrawn

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2005, 12:40:07 PM »
Okay, I just went out for smoke and had a thought.  My answer lies in something that was touch on here briefly, that of public and private property.

If one choses to go on an airplane, I should be searched by government agents.  Heck I could be searched by agents of the airport or the airline as I am entering their private property.  But I think the bigger issue is the question whether or not some else, or their private property will be damaged in the case of an explosion, and whether or not they had a reasonable opportunity to remove themselves from that threat.

People are free to choose whether or not they wish to use either method of transportation, and to take the risks associated with it.

However in the event of an explosion on the plane, or the plane being used as a weapon, the private citizen has no practical way to not be killed by debris or the plane hitting their building or what not.

While in the case of the subway, knowledge of their routes are readily available, they are underground so debris proably wouldn't be a factor and if the private individual feels that it might be they can move.  Where airplanes are much more mobile and one can't predict where it's exact flight path would be.  In one case the citizen can in essence protect themselves, in the other the citizen can't.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 12:42:09 PM by Thrawn »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2005, 01:54:52 PM »
No good Thrawn, IMO.

What practical way do you have to avoid being killed by a suicide bomber in your subway car?

So in truth I think you should stick to your first answer - that of not having an answer. :)

Why? Because the airline searches were only put into place after bad guys started bringing bombs nad weapons into planes in the 1960s and killing loads of people with them.  

Subway searches only now arecoming in because of the same.

I'm not ecstatic about either, but the alternatives are worse.

Lets be honest here. Who here would actually feel better about fllying if ALL of the airport searches, exrays, metal detectors, bomb scans etc were removed tommorow. Would that be better?

Offline Sandman

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2005, 02:19:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

Lets be honest here. Who here would actually feel better about fllying if ALL of the airport searches, exrays, metal detectors, bomb scans etc were removed tommorow. Would that be better?


Let's be honest. Do you believe that the increase in security and all the hassles that come with it are part of the reason the airlines are going bankrupt?
sand

Offline Thrawn

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2005, 02:42:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
No good Thrawn, IMO.

What practical way do you have to avoid being killed by a suicide bomber in your subway car?


Simply, by exercising your free choice and not being on a subway car.



Quote
I'm not ecstatic about either, but the alternatives are worse.


What's worse than losing freedom?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2005, 02:56:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Simply, by exercising your free choice and not being on a subway car.



And how is that different than airplanes?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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NY being sued because of subway bag searches
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2005, 02:57:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Let's be honest. Do you believe that the increase in security and all the hassles that come with it are part of the reason the airlines are going bankrupt?


Irellevabn, dont try to avoid answering the question.