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Author Topic: What about new 109's  (Read 6125 times)

Offline justin_g

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What about new 109's
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2005, 04:22:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Kweassa, I honestly think we can get by without 2 planes inserted between the G-6 and the "AH2 G10". I think we can do it in 1


G-14 would represent the medium altitude 1944 Gustav(G-5,6,14) with the AM engine, I believe existing previous versions of the Gustav still in use were converted to this standard - this a/c would be useful in Ost Front scenarios.

G-10 would represent the high altitude 1944 Gustav(G-14/AS, G-10) with the ASM engine(DB 605D engine used in the G-10 offers very similar performance to ASM) - this would be the a/c of choice for the Western Front scenarios.
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Offline butch2k

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What about new 109's
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2005, 04:56:29 AM »
No conversion of the previous aiframe to the new standard, 200 G-14 were even produced w/o MW-50 due to lack of parts...
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Offline hogenbor

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What about new 109's
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2005, 05:01:35 AM »
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Originally posted by Kev367th
So what is more reasonable? Given a country that was around 10 weeks from surrendering from the Mar 20 order, and was getting attacked 24 hrs a day.


Don't believe al that anti-German propaganda, they never lost the war. Daimler owns Chrysler, Volkswagen owns Bentley and BMW owns Rolls-Royce. And it can only be a matter of time before Toyota buys GM. How did that ever happen? :D
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Offline Charge

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What about new 109's
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2005, 05:19:57 AM »
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Originally posted by hogenbor
Don't believe al that anti-German propaganda, they never lost the war. Daimler owns Chrysler, Volkswagen owns Bentley and BMW owns Rolls-Royce. And it can only be a matter of time before Toyota buys GM. How did that ever happen? :D


Awww, such nice posts. Hey, lets ask HTC to model those planes in relation to the situation they were manufatured in. Im sure would be fun zipping around in 2000+ hp spits blasting down 109s and 190s flying with speeds and manuverability equal to C47. That would be fair as they did lose the war after all? :D :D

-C+
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Offline Kev367th

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What about new 109's
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2005, 05:27:26 AM »
Lol
According to Kurfys own figures there were approx 33 sqns (396 op aircraft 660 total), Spit IX at 25 boost jan 45.
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Offline justin_g

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What about new 109's
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2005, 05:34:31 AM »
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Originally posted by butch2k
No conversion of the previous aiframe to the new standard, 200 G-14 were even produced w/o MW-50 due to lack of parts...


Didn't know that. I always thought the G-14 was a standardisation of the mess of G-6 variants in service.
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Offline FalconSix

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What about new 109's
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2005, 05:39:43 AM »
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Irrespective of perked or not, it shouldn't be using 1.98 in that case, it would hardly be a 'representative' K-4.

Gotta keep thinking TOD not just the MA.


Fuel availability is really irrelevant. IIRC HTC models the planes in ideal conditions, i.e. no production quality problems, fuel problems etc.
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Offline Kev367th

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What about new 109's
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2005, 06:07:33 AM »
Why -
Without fuel it wouldn't fly.
I could have 1000 uberboostedspithizookamonster s requiring 2000 grade fuel for top performance, or 1000 grade fuel for a lesser performance.
If I only had enough 2000 grade to run 10 of them would that be considered fair to include it in AH2?
Or would it more properly be at its lower performace on a lower grade fuel that was more available.

Exaggerated I know, but shows what I'm getting at.

The whole K4 1.98ata is based on
1700 produced, by April 9 1945 there were 79 left operational = 4.6%.

What is being suggested is that that whole 4.6% was running 1.98ata, without 1 piece of solid evidence, lots of assume, likely assume, presume etc.
This is despite numerous holes being blown in Kurfys assumptions.
His own C3 fuel consumption figures for April 1945 can't even support it!!!!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 06:16:03 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline FalconSix

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What about new 109's
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2005, 06:26:26 AM »
Kev, the 109G-10 and K-4 engine was designed to run at 1.98 ata. You're talking about boosting an engine beyond designed limitations. Quite the difference.

The G-10 we have already runs on 1.98 if I'm not mistaken.
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Offline Charge

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What about new 109's
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2005, 06:37:54 AM »
I doubt it would not make much difference if it were 1.98 in practice. But if it was not it would be another "coffin nail" for ToD LW. (FW190A8 is already one of those...)

I think it is a fact that in MA it would be a rare bird even unperked if it only has 30mm because IMO that gun reduces its effectiviness quite a lot.

-C+
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Offline FalconSix

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What about new 109's
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2005, 06:50:13 AM »
We have "the best possible" G-10 configuration in AH. It is practically a K-4 with an optional 20mm. The K-4 would be only slightly faster due to some reduced drag. 370-380mph on the deck compared to the 367mph of our current G-10.
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Offline Kev367th

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What about new 109's
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2005, 07:01:35 AM »
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Kev, the 109G-10 and K-4 engine was designed to run at 1.98 ata. You're talking about boosting an engine beyond designed limitations. Quite the difference.

The G-10 we have already runs on 1.98 if I'm not mistaken.


G-10 is being dropped according to Pyro.

Designed or not, there is actually a greater case for a 190 on C3 than any 109.
Designed doesn't mean it ran it, in fact everything points to the conclusion that the primary user of C3 was the 190s, up until as late as March 19 1945.



Shame it isn't all visible, but at least shows -
190 using C3 extensively, only K4 unit visible is on B4. Bearing in mind C3 is required for 1.98ata.

1 day later an order was issued to convert the 3 K4 units to 1.98ata, but nothing has been produced to show this actually happened. Look at the date, the war ended 1.5 months later!!!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 07:05:04 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline FalconSix

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What about new 109's
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2005, 07:04:01 AM »
Arguing over fuel availability might be interesting from a historical standpoint, but for game play it is a mute point. The Aces High main arena is nothing like a historical WWII simulator. It's a game played using simulated WWII equipment. And if you're wondering why it is called the main arena, just think about where HTC makes its money. The MA or the CT? *holds up the proverbial scale*
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Offline FalconSix

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What about new 109's
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2005, 07:06:43 AM »
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Originally posted by Kev367th
G-10 is being dropped according to Pyro.

Designed or not, there is actually a greater case for a 190 on C3 than any 109.
Designed doesn't mean it ran it, in fact everything points to the conclusion that the primary user of C3 was the 190s, up until as late as March 1945.


It does not matter what it ran on 60 years ago. AH is not a historical WWII game. All radial engined 190s ran on C3. The BMW801 engine could not run on B4.
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Offline Kev367th

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What about new 109's
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2005, 07:08:21 AM »
I totally agree, but considering the apparent rarity of a K4 @ 1.98ata and bearing in mind TOD and scenarios (could only be used April 45 onwards).
Do you not think a K4 1.8ata which covers 1944/45 is more useful?
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