Author Topic: Protestors at soldier's funeral  (Read 1235 times)

Offline cpxxx

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2005, 06:53:37 AM »
There is no excuse for protesting at funerals, certainly not for people who dare to call themselves Christians. None whatsoever. It's bad enough to lose someone. But to find there are people outside the service who are glad your friend or relative is dead is sickening.

Their is no excuse, no cause justifies it, nor any so called moral stance, a funeral is the wrong moment entirely. It doesn't matter who or what the person is. There is no justification.

In many countries they would be beaten to death by a mob for their disrespect.  Sometimes you can be too tolerant of people who abuse their 'freedom' to protest.

This is one such case.

Offline Shuckins

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2005, 07:41:46 AM »
They wouldn't ack dat way ifn they's been razed rat.

Mah mama woulda slappt the speeyet outta maw mouf ifn ahd evah sade somefin lak dat to any stranguh.  An den win maw dadduh got home HOOOIIIEEEEE!!!!  Ah tornader wif a belt!!!  

Win he wuz dun, ah woodah had to set maw naked buhind own duh cold bafroom linoleum ta git any releaf.



In all seriousness, that is what would have happened to me.  There seems to be a death of civility and a growth of arrogance in our society.  How such chowder-heads expect our country to survive in this world without a military is beyond me.   Their hatred for anything military and subsequent support for extremist groups that blow up groups of children getting hand-outs of candy is obscene.

Offline AWMac

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2005, 09:58:24 AM »
1 Machetee, 15 minutes...protest over. Raging Bull...

That has to be the sorriest thing to do at a Funeral!

Is this Biyatch listed in the phone book?  Would love to call her 24/7 and let her know I spent 20 years in the Military to give her the right to Freedom of Speech and now I'm just earning it back!!!!

Mac

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2005, 10:18:27 AM »
As far as i know what i learned long time ago in the army.

That u have to show what u are.
U cannot walk around like a civilian and than suddenly attack.

Or wear a wrong uniform , those germans caught in US uniform in the ardennes where sentenced to death by fire squad.


There is prob a big grey area

Offline Eagler

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2005, 10:44:00 AM »
I would "picket" them when they least expect it ....

did you see the home page of the "church"?
google: Westboro Baptist Church
cheekboness who need their collective arses kicked - hate mongers who need to be shown the door
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 10:48:00 AM by Eagler »
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Offline Fishu

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2005, 10:54:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
As far as i know what i learned long time ago in the army.

That u have to show what u are.
U cannot walk around like a civilian and than suddenly attack.

Or wear a wrong uniform , those germans caught in US uniform in the ardennes where sentenced to death by fire squad.


There is prob a big grey area


Those rules and the resistance fighters are two different things.
It's like a treaty between countries, but what government do the resistance fighters represent?
Besides that, if they would do it by all the regulations, they'd be squashed in no time by the occupation forces, or they would no longer be 'resistance fighters', but an army.

If your country is occupied and you really want to do something to it, you would do exactly the same as they do in Iraq.
Theres no other way to fight the occupiers, than hide in as a civilian.
If you want to assassinate someone important with a hit & run attack, you wouldn't get anywhere close the target in a uniform.
To be effective, it is desirable to be able to fade away after an attack, to be able to attack again.
Dressed in uniform in a heavily occupied territory would just make you hundred times more vulnerable.

At the countryside, or other lightly guarded territory, you could make strikes against targets in a uniform and get away.
For example germans didn't have so strong occupation all over France or lowlands, which is why partisans were also seen in uniform.
After the strike, they did return to their base or whatever and dress as civilian - thats against the convention rules as well.

However the actual army soldiers aren't expected to do that in a war.
Of course they can, but they'd be executed on the spot if caught alive. They wouldn't have any of the rights that POW's do.

This all makes a sort of "funny" controversy.
It was bad when germans executed resistance fighters, but it is good if they're executed in Iraq without rights.
Euro partisans were also seen as the good ones, but in Iraq they're the bad ones.
However they don't differ from each others much, what comes to the strikes against Iraqi officials and the occupiers.
Euros did target the native politicians and others cooperating with the occupiers, though not as radically as they in Iraq.

What is happening in Iraq, really isn't anything new.
Whats new, is the scale they're blowing up alot of their own as "traitors working for the occupiers", even if they're only  builders on a site that is being built by foreigners.
Killing native politicians working in the occupiers government is very understandable - if you're such a radical person that you see them as occupiers, then the ones working as politicians for the "enemy" are among top of your enemies - traitors from within.


This isn't any pro-muslim resistance fighter speech.
You just can't dismiss the reasons and create controversies with your own history.
It is nothing new there are people whos pissed off at the occupiers and that they're going to act against much bigger foe like they do.
In the middle east the radicalness isn't anything new either.
Bush really should've studied the cultural and historical things somewhat better before launching his freedom anti-WMD al qaeda campaign in Iraq and planned accordingly.
Theres been no surprises that couldn't been thought of before the war.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 11:01:50 AM by Fishu »

Offline Gunslinger

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2005, 11:03:22 AM »
Fishu in comparing "insurgant" activities in Iraq and resistance in france you are completly ignoring the religious aspects of it all.  The majority of the attacks that are carried out are done by the sunnis and bathists....members of the old regiem.  Those are just the IRAQIS that are carrying out attacks.  Then theres the Iranians and syrians answering the call to jihad.  wich IMHO is a completly different element in of itself.  These are neither soldiers nore insurgents but terrorists.  

It's not to say it didn't happen but I dont ever recall reading about french resistance fighters ever carrying out large scale attacks against civilian population.  To compare them to iraqi insurgants is...GULP.....(note: this is hard to say).....an insult to the French

Offline Fishu

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2005, 11:34:02 AM »
Gunslinger,

I did attempt to make a difference between the euro and iraq resistance fighters when it comes to mass killings of civilians.
However other aspects are pretty much the same.
Including killings of the people co-operating with the occupying forces.
However in Iraq virtually everyone is in danger to become killed for cooperating with the occupiers.

Besides it wasn't originally about blowing up people, but of the resistance fighters dressed as civilians.


Anyway, I'd like to first see some actual intelligence reports on where the different insurgents originates from and what they're mostly doing.
So far most of the 'intelligence' has been from the kinds of experts who fully agrees Osama is either dead or alive. :rolleyes:

And like you said, theres the cultural difference, which why the killers of civilians can be just as well native iraqis as foreign insurgents.
If they find it convincing enough that Islam calls the civilians as enemies, they're going to do it.
Then there are the other groups with their own criminal intents.
How do we for example know that a store owner simply didn't pay protection money to a criminal gang and they blew up the whole site?
We really don't know much of their intents and there are several different groups with different motives.

Offline Gunslinger

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2005, 11:40:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Gunslinger,

I did attempt to make a difference between the euro and iraq resistance fighters when it comes to mass killings of civilians.
However other aspects are pretty much the same.
Including killings of the people co-operating with the occupying forces.
However in Iraq virtually everyone is in danger to become killed for cooperating with the occupiers.

Besides it wasn't originally about blowing up people, but of the resistance fighters dressed as civilians.


Anyway, I'd like to first see some actual intelligence reports on where the different insurgents originates from and what they're mostly doing.
So far most of the 'intelligence' has been from the kinds of experts who fully agrees Osama is either dead or alive. :rolleyes:

And like you said, theres the cultural difference, which why the killers of civilians can be just as well native iraqis as foreign insurgents.
If they find it convincing enough that Islam calls the civilians as enemies, they're going to do it.
Then there are the other groups with their own criminal intents.
How do we for example know that a store owner simply didn't pay protection money to a criminal gang and they blew up the whole site?
We really don't know much of their intents and there are several different groups with different motives.


I saw on the news this morning a Brit Officer talking about a shipment of munitions (explosives) that was aledgedly intercepted from coming from Iran.  The matter is under investigation though but I don't think it is a super secret matter that non-iraqis have joined the fight in big numbers.  

The chance to fight US soldiers in Jihad is the chance of their liftime and are drawn to it like a bugs to a zapper.  

But yes I would agree with you on your other points.  How this all relates to idiot scum claiming to be christian protesting a time of honor is beyond me.

Offline Seagoon

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2005, 12:53:10 PM »
Hi Guys,

Fred Phelps, what can one say about Fred? Well, Fred seems to have forgotten the gospel of grace a long time ago and has switched over to a ministry consisting entirely of a grim preaching of the wrath of God towards sin, sans the equally important doctrine of the mercy of God extended to sinners. I can't help but imagine that Fred and the exceedingly sparse membership of his WBC church would benefit from a serious consideration of the phrase "There But For the Grace of God Go I" or that Christ Himself asked of the father "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." regarding those who were crucifying him.

Personally, I am trying hard, very hard, to be filled with pity towards Fred and his flock instead of wrath. I have already lost Christian brothers to IEDs in the war on terror, including one, Captain Ernie Blanco, who himself was planning on marrying and going into the ministry when he left the military. To this day I cannot remember meeting a more godly, upstanding, and zealous proponent of the good news. His witness has been confirmed in the fact that all of the guys I have met who served in his unit, Christian and non-Christian were utterly devestated when he was killed, all of them had some memory of him that spoke of his kindness, selflessness, courage, and willingness to act as a servant leader. For Fred to conclude that men like Ernie are condemned to hell merely for their honorable service, indicates that they do not in fact understand salvation at all. I don't know what I would do if he ever showed up at a funeral I was conducting, but may God give me strength to pray and witness even to the hardened in heart in that moment, rather than repaying evil for evil with a swift kick in the rear.

All of this goes to show that ministers need an overseeing body, no good ever ultimately comes of absolute ministerial independency.



- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2005, 01:04:32 PM »
Amen Seagoon.

And Bug, whatever your ideas of what a "Partisan" or "Guerrilla" may be, they have their own ideas.  Thats the thing about Guerrillas, their tactics change to suit the environment in which they are fighting.  Its the very nature of Guerrilla tactics.  In our own Civil War over 100 years ago, we had Partisans fighting on the fringes who wore civilian clothing to blend in, or even stole uniforms from the soldiers they killed.  Many times they wore these uniforms in attacks on enemy forces, to create confusion.  There is nothing new under the sun.  Any way men can find to kill each other, we have tried before, somewhere, sometime.  Its only the weapons that change.

Offline hacksaw1

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2005, 01:31:10 PM »
Hello Suave,

While agreeing with you about the indecency of the group of religious protesters, your last comment paints with too broad a brush.

Quote
Religion.. stupid is as stupid does.


The fact is the young soldier's funeral was   conducted at Grace Evangelical Church.  I can only imagine that they honored him as  is fitting.

All the best.

Cement.

Offline Sandman

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2005, 02:16:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
How sad.   :(

If people hate America so much then why don't they just leave?


Typical conservative hyperbole.
sand

Offline SMIDSY

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2005, 03:19:57 PM »
fishu, "foriegn insurgent" is an oxymoron. an insurgent is someone who attacks from within the country being attacked. i already said most of what you said (albeit less elegently).

as for you gunslinger, you have lost your thinking privlages. you say the motives are different? well so is the situation. the reason that there weren't many foriegn resistance fighters in the french resistance was because they had their own countries to fight in: holland, belgium, czhechoslovakia, even poland.

Offline Gunslinger

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Protestors at soldier's funeral
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2005, 04:09:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SMIDSY
fishu, "foriegn insurgent" is an oxymoron. an insurgent is someone who attacks from within the country being attacked. i already said most of what you said (albeit less elegently).

as for you gunslinger, you have lost your thinking privlages. you say the motives are different? well so is the situation. the reason that there weren't many foriegn resistance fighters in the french resistance was because they had their own countries to fight in: holland, belgium, czhechoslovakia, even poland.


you've obviously have lost your READING privilages/ability.  I was mearly responding to the comparison of French resistance to Iraqi insurgants.  And yes there are SOME insurgants in Iraq (note: I feel we are fighting an insurgancy but it is not lead by native Iraqies but foreign jihadists and terrorists)  THAT is among many reasons why I feel there cannot be a proper comparison between french resistance and iraqi fighters.  Like I said it's an insult to the french resistance.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 04:17:16 PM by Gunslinger »