Author Topic: My view on religion.  (Read 2292 times)

Offline narsus

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My view on religion.
« on: March 29, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Well I think I can best clasify myself as agnostic (not sure what to believe). I am United Methodist by baptism, and havent gone to church in years. But I try to lead a good life, dont steal, kill, hate. I like science was a geology major in college (I know what a rock is   )

My main problem....well problem is not the word...My main concern is what religion is say the correct one. If heaven does exist and I'd like to think so, what religion do i follow or is just leading a good a life as i can suffice. I in nature always must ask why whether science or religion, I cannot in good conscience follow something blindly I need proof. One book doesn't justify proof for me whether science or religion I need more sources.

Do I believe in Jesus Christ well yes, he did exist and I comprehend his teachings, but do I believe he was imaculately concepted or the son of god I dont know, I wasn't there. Do I think that faith is important? of course I do.

With geology I can actually go to the san andreas fault and see the crack, been in CA during an earthquake the earth moves. I can go to hawaii and see an active volcano enlarging and island. i can look through a telescope and see the rings of saturn.

I cant say hey god mind coming down here to answer some questions.

well that's enough for now does anyone else feel the way I do? Or am I just insane  

narsus

[This message has been edited by narsus (edited 03-29-2001).]

Offline Dinger

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My view on religion.
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2001, 11:15:00 AM »
Christ was never immaculately conceived.

Offline narsus

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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2001, 11:17:00 AM »
Virgin Mary?

narsus

Offline ygsmilo

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My view on religion.
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2001, 11:18:00 AM »
I believe in the Calvin and Hobbs theory of religion:  You had better try them all that way all your bases are covered.


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Offline -ammo-

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My view on religion.
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2001, 11:20:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger:
Christ was never immaculately conceived.

Wow, you are so certain

Too bad you will find out your wrong...too late. Unless of coarse you change your mind in time.
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Offline Eagler

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My view on religion.
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2001, 11:34:00 AM »
the Messenger isn't as important as the Message

problem is ppl distort the Message for their own personal gain

Eagler

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funked

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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2001, 11:54:00 AM »
Ammo, knowing Dinger, he doesn't pretend to know things that he really doesn't know.  If he made that statement, he probably is debating whether the language in the Bible actually claims that Christ was immaculately conceived.  I'm not certain but I'm betting he will reply to that effect.  

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2001, 12:37:00 PM »
Err... narsus had it right on the second try.
Christ was never immaculately conceived.  Immaculate Conception is when, at the moment the rational soul is infused into a body created by carnal union, God does not apply to that soul the stain of Original Sin.
Christ, if you are a believer, was not created by carnal union; the Annunciation and Virgin Birth are different phenomena from the Immaculate Conception.
The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic Doctrine concerning the conception of the Virgin Mary in the womb of Anne.

funked

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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2001, 12:42:00 PM »
OK Where's my $20?  And no I didn't call him.  

Offline narsus

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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2001, 12:45:00 PM »
Dinger

Ah, ok that makes sense as I said it's been a while since I've been to church. Thanks for the clarification.

narsus

Offline batdog

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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »
 Hey... I have been having a crises of faith for awhile. I was raised a hell and brimstone Bapist. I havent been to church for years but I truely feel that there are some large "holes" in the religion I was brought up with. The concept of being condemed to hell for eternity for simply not believing in Jesus is abit far off to me.

 I mean... we are like machines to a certian extent. We are programed from birth up by various factors. These factors "wire" our brain to a certian extent. They cause us to think a certain way... Now if you've been taught from birth that The mighty UOOOGLY is the da Man with da Plan then your gonna say... Jesus ..who the heck is that? But according to the teaching of Uooogly youve been a good Oompa and have treated others well, bla bla bla. Now... your gonna goto hell. This seems abit arrogent to me.

 Heck..Christanity has how many different domantions? They all say the other is abit wacked... they are assured the others might goto hell to. Oh and some pedophile who suddenly found God is now going to heaven when say... Ghandie is not?

Batdog
 
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

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Offline blur

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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »
As far as religious/spiritual/metaphysical arguments go, I've never seen the nature of reality explained more succinctly than in the following:


          "I am not, but the Universe is my Self"
                       (Shit-t'ou, 700-790)

          Logical analysis of this intuition
                       By Wei Wu Wei

Objects are only known as the result of reactions of the senses of sentient beings to a variety of stimuli.

These stimuli appear to derive from sources external to the reagent apparatus, but there is no evidence of this apart from the reagent apparatus itself.

Objects, therefore, are only a surmise, for they have no demonstrable existence apart from the subject that cognizes them.

Since that subject itself is not sensorially cognizable except as an object, subject also is only a surmise.

Since the factual existence of neither subject nor object can be demonstrated, existence is no more than a conceptual assumption, which, metaphysically, is inacceptable.

There is, therefore, no valid evidence for the existence of a world external to the consciousness of sentient beings, which external world is therefore seen to be nothing but the cognisers of it, that is - sentient beings themselves.

But there can be no factual evidence for the existence of sentient beings, either as subject or as object, who therefore are merely a conceptual assumption on the part of the consciousness in which they are cognized.

It follows that 'consciousness' also can only be a conceptual assumption without demonstrable existence.

What, then, can this assumption of consciousness denote? This question can only be answered in metaphysical terms, according to which consciousness may be regarded as the manifested aspect of the unmanifested or non-manifestation, which is the nearest it seems possible to go towards expressing in a concept that which by definition is inconceivable.

Why should this be so? It must be so because conceptuality cannot have conceptuality for source, but only the non-conceptual, because that which objectively conceives must necessarily spring from the objectively non-existent, the manifested from non manifestation, for conceptuality cannot conceive or objectify itself - as an eye cannot see itself as an object.

Therefore consciousness can be described as pure non-conceptuality, which is 'pure' because unstained either by the conceptual or the non-conceptual, which implies that there is a total absence of both positive and negative conceptuality.

Not existing as an object, even conceptual, there can be no 'it', there is no 'thing' to bear a name, no subject is possible where no object is, and total absence of being is inevitably implied.

All we can say about this which we are, which to us must be objectified as 'it' in order that we may speak of it at all, is to regard 'it' as the noumenon of phenomena, but, since neither of these exists objectively, phenomenally regarded it may be understood as the ultimate absence from which all presence comes to appear.

But consciousness, or 'Mind', does not project the phenomenal universe: 'it' IS the phenomenal universe which is manifested as its self.

Metaphysics, relying on intuition or direct perception, says no more than this, and points out that no word, be it the Absolute, the Logos, God, or Tao, can be other than a concept which, as such, has no factual validity whatsoever.

This-Which-Is, then, which cannot be subject or object, which cannot be named or thought, and the realization of which is the ultimate awakening, can only be indicated in such a phrase as that quoted above:

"I am not, but the apparent universe is my Self."

Hope this clears this whole issue up.  

AW Otto

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My view on religion.
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2001, 06:00:00 PM »
It is too easy to quote scripture here so I have to do it.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the father, but by me.

I read this as saying that no man will enter heaven unless he is a Christian. God the father can not even be approached unless the seeking individual goes through the Son, Jesus Christ. Believe in him or not, that is the decision every individual must make. Also, unless you live a Christian life you will not make it to heaven.

  Of course all of this is null and void unless you believe the Bible. But be warned, you can not believe only a portion of the Bible. It is God`s word. Believe it all or believe none of it. To only believe a portion of it is like saying God was only correct in some of what he is telling us. That simply isn`t true IMHO


Offline Dinger

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My view on religion.
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2001, 06:16:00 PM »
Unless you're Jewish, and then it is the case.
And parts can be described in a variety of ways, as can interpretation.
You can say, "I believe all the BIble" and yet hold:
The Old Law of the Hebrew Bible is supplanted by the New Testament.
Often the BIble will use figurative or poetic language, that is not meant to be taken literally; so some parts you believe in a metaphorical or anagogical sense.  You expect me to believe 6 days of creation, and that Jesus' point was nothing more than vineyard workers should be paid by the day, not hour?
Some passages suffer from corruptions, and you have to make a choice concerning which manuscript tradition to use.
The apocryphal books have little value as testaments to the truth.
and so on.

Offline Cabby

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My view on religion.
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2001, 06:48:00 PM »
Blur:

That's very nice, but i prefer God's explanation:

"I am what i am".

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