Author Topic: Home network problems (Read 572 times)

Krusty · « **on:** August 08, 2005, 04:12:44 PM »

My family has had 5 PCs for some time now. We share a connection via an 8-port switch (EZXS88W I think). The cable model goes to the switch, and each computer has a cable to the switch as well. Each PC has ZoneAlarm.

The problem is that not all computers can see each other. I know how to set up the basic things so that the computers SHOULD see each other. I've set the workgroup to be the same, and disabled windows firewall, and so forth. Each computer gets internet just fine, but only 3 could see each other (the same 3) and for a while the other 2 saw each other then they were replaced and the same settings were applied but each can only see itself.

We're running WinXP on all boxes now, as opposed to a WinME and a Win98 previously. We tried adding each comp's IP to every comp's ZoneAlarm trusted zone. This allowed print sharing on the ocmputers that could see each other, but we have never been able to get a true file sharing network going.

Does anybody have any ideas what might be the problem? Has anybody experienced this before?

Stone · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2005, 12:32:47 AM »

I had similair problem.

In my case, the computers got their IP addres from the ISP.

But, some times the ISP gave each computer an IP address from a different SUB NET, so the IP address and IP SUB NET MASK told the computers they are not in the same LAN. (even tho thei were)

So I had to manualy set temporary IP address from the same IP SUB NET, when I wanted to transfere files betwen my computers.

Now I have a router with DHCP on it, so all my PC get a "grey" or "non public" IP address, and are able to see each other ok.

To the Internet all share one IP (NAT).

It sounds like that you could have the same problem as I had.

So check that all computers are on same IP sub net.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/subnet_mask.html

Ghosth · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2005, 03:40:21 AM »

I had a friend bring a computer over for me to help him tweak a bit. We had the same problem your describing. Stable home network, linksys hub (switch) and a DSL modem.

Our 3 machines had no problems, his wasn't there. Turned off his MS firewall, and hey presto, he shows up on the net.

Downloaded zone alarm, he tried the basic. I grabbed the pro version a day later. Back to network problems.
Even though we each had the others ip listed.

After 3 weeks of running ZoneAlarm pro I dumped it. In that time I'd had exactly 0 attempts for anyone to ping my machine. Frankly it wasn't worth the hassle.

As for his machine, he could see the net with ZA running, but no one else could see him.

I think you'd be better off with a single firewall at the modem than 5 machines running ZA.

Krusty · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2005, 01:02:52 PM »

Stone I've heard DHCP before, could ya give me a brief description of what it is?

Ghosth, we actually need a firewall here. I get hundreds and hundreds of access attempts every day (it's a college neighborhood, all the wannabe hackers, I bet). Hell I got 300 in an hour once, somebody somewhere REALLY wanted to hack into me. Since then I've decided NOT to go without a firewall.

The other option is a gateway computer setup. The problem with that is that we don't have a "server" computer that can always be on. I could put one together I bet, but not for a little while. The other problem is that we use all computers we have, and it would be hard to convince the rest of my family that "this is for sharing, but not for using" lol.

It would be nice to have a central shared printer, tho... every time I get print jobs on my shared laser printer whatever I'm doing takes a dump for a full minute as the spool prepares itself.

EDIT: If anybody can suggest a firewall other than zonealarm, that allows file sharing, that would be nice. We're all using ZA because ... wel... it's free! And it's relatively good, from my point of view.

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2005, 09:33:37 PM »

I have 3 PCs on a home network. I had a bunch of problems having the PCs see each other. When I put XP on each and updated them to the latest service pack, they all can see each other.

I use ZA on my PC, and I think the others have Windows Firewall. You need to make sure you make the IP range on your network a trusted zone, then turn down the settings to allow file sharing. Then you need enable sharing on the folders you want to share.

Good luck,

zmeg · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2005, 11:42:27 PM »

Krusty, has it occured to you that all those "hack attempts" your getting could be your other computers trying to get hooked up.

Krusty · « **Reply #6 on:** August 09, 2005, 11:59:48 PM »

Zmeg, I considered that, as well. Negative. They were outside IPs, and the same IP (in the 300 tries example) was trying different ports and different ways to get in.

I tried adding all the IPs to every PC's ZoneAlarm. I'm thinking it's a combination of ZoneAlarm's shortcomings and the switch's lack of features. I have my eye on a router (not just a switch), what do you all think of a NetGear one:

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16833122007

I've also sent an e-mail or two to various places to see what they suggest is best for their programs.

Stone · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2005, 12:07:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Stone I've heard DHCP before, could ya give me a brief description of what it is?

Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP).

Before people had to manualy enter their IP configuration. (IP address, subnet mask, default gateway, nameserver etc.)

Now ISP's and offices uses DHCP. This simply is a server that listens to computers coming online and asking for a IP configuration. The DHCP server will then send the host (the pc) its unique IP address, along with the other IP settings. (Subnet, default gateway etc.)

Now I would suggest you buy a router that has built in DHCP server in it. This way all the PC will get an NAT (Networ Address Translation) non public IP address.

This will ensure that the LAN (Local Area Network) (your 5 pc's) are on the same IP Subnet. Also it will add some security, as it is impossible to activly hack (eg. ping) the PC's from the Internet. Hackers will only be able to see the router IP.

Some on-line games does not work to great with NAT network, but Aces High II has no problems with NAT. (I have NAT)

If all computers have XP, I would drop ZA and use XP own firewall. Just make sure you have the XP fire wall on, and that all your PC are uppdated with SP2 + all critical windouws updates.

NAT + XP local firewall is a OK and reasonable protection.
(Also add AVAST or some other free antivirus.)

BUT:
Firs it would be nice to see that you actually have the PC's in different SUBNET.

Please post your IP SUBNET MASK, and check that all PC's has the same mask. Then we can see wich numbers in the IP address has to be equal, to be on same SUB NET. (Do not post your IP address tho!)

Also IF you are on different ip subnets and do not want to spend money on a router, there are other workarounds. Maybe one can get the ISP to setup their DHCP to send your coumputers IP from the same subnet?

I have also heard that some people has installed other network protocols (Netbios or NWLINK) than IP for local file sharing. I have not tried it my self, but it should work if all computers are connected via a HUB/(switch/repeater). Dont know how it will effect IP trafic tho...

Krusty · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2005, 12:11:09 AM »

It's late now, I'll check all the subnet masks tomorrow and post them then.

I do remember the days when I had to manually configure the things DHCP does, but those were for dial-up. Good to know it's automatic now (it sure was a pain to set up)

Thanks for the help.

Krusty · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2005, 09:42:52 AM »

My subnet:
255.255.254.0

PC 2 (I used to be able to see it, probably a ZA issue)
255.255.254.0

PC 3 (never was able to see this one)
255.255.252.0

PC 4 (never was able to see this one)
255.255.248.0

Couldn't check the laptop, as it's not here right now. I suspect its the same as the first two, as I used to be able to see it.

They all have different default gateways, as well.. I'd have thought we'd all use the same default gateway. Oh well.

So now what? Is there a way to force a subnet mask?

Kev367th · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2005, 10:12:22 AM »

Easiest way Krusty in all honesty is to pick a cheap ($40 ish) home router.
Use that to hand out DHCP IP addresses to your 'home' network.
They come with a built in firewall and allow you to share the internet connection.

Other than that what IP addresses and subnet masks are you using?

Without something than can do routing you must use the same network masks throughout your network.

Krusty · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2005, 10:47:17 AM »

problem is there are no cheap 8-port routers that have DHCP. Bet one I can find so far is a NetGear for about $100

Kev367th · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2005, 11:17:01 AM »

Try a cheap 4 port router ($40) and a switch, or didn't you say you already had a hub? (switch is better).

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2005, 12:48:01 PM »

I've heard different stories about which is better, hub or switch. I have a switch. So you're saying connect the switch to the router. Will that work, or will it complicate things? Will there be issues, or are they designed to work that way?

Kev367th · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2005, 01:08:03 PM »

Switches are better.

Yup just connect the switch to the router, your PCs to the switch.

What you could do (better setup)-
Assuming 4 port router which is the norm
Put your AH2 PC on say port 1 of the router.
Put the switch on port 2 of the router
Connect all other PC's to the switch.

Just isolates your PC from the collision domain of the PCs on the switch.
Will not affect subnet masks or IP adresses, set up as standard.

If you need detailed help, PM me and I will give you my tel #.