Author Topic: A solution to the bombing crisis  (Read 1715 times)

Offline Zazen13

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2005, 01:48:05 AM »
The core of the problem as I see it is the same problem we had with fuel porking. One Bomber jock can single-handedly ruin the fun for potentially 50+ people. A single bomber with nothing other than free-time at his disposal can take a base completely down. If done from good altitude he is at very minimal risk of dying. This presents a severe gameplay balance issue. It presents the same issues the single jabo did when he could bring a base to 25% fuel or when a single buff could bring a country's HQ down for 3 hours. These problems were rectified to a large extent. Now this problem needs to be rectified also.

Some solutions for this specific issue:

1) Spread Fighter Hangers out alot more, so they are not killable in one pass.
2) Add more Fighter Hangers to all field sizes.
3) Make Fighter Hangers Harder
4) Make all field strats harder.
5) Make puffy ack far more dangerous/deadly to high altitude, large, slow moving targets and less so to fast, small, low level targets.
6) Do as hub recommended to end the Dive Bombing Heavies, this is rediculous.

Do all those things and you wouldn't need to change the siting and aiming dynamics as they are now, which is incredible simplistic. Defensive gun and formations could be left in. Ironically, doing the things on the above list would actually make bombers MORE important, as they would be more valuable relative to jabo's to take down harder strats. People will want to escort their bombers more instead of hating them for ruining a budding fight in one pass.

When they added the bomber formations they didn't harden field strats proportionally, so now what took 1 bomber 3 passes takes a formation 1 pass. What took 3 bombers pilots working together now takes 1 bomber pilot alone. It's simply out of wack from an effort to effect on gameplay perspective.

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 10, 2005, 01:50:48 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Kweassa

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2005, 07:48:31 AM »
Ultimately, to solve EVERY problem involving buffs, the bombers should be given a worthy target to go after.

 ...

 Airfield targets are basically tactical.

 They reup very quickly, and don't have any kind of real impact on the game on a long term basis. Situation revolving around a hot-spot changes by the minute, and by the time a really dedicated pilot gets his buff to alt, everything has already changed.

 Thus, currently, as I've said before, buffs aren't really used as buffs at all. They are but over-bloated jabos. The only reason people use buffs in the game is because most fighter pilots are too lazy to go bomb stuff themselves, or too pathetic in bombing skills to hit the target with just one or two bombs.

 ...

 But what if a strategical target was given?

 For example, something like a fuel refinery which, when bombed on a large scale, would reduce the entire fuel load for all the airfields in that "zone" on a  universal scale? A large facility, which takes many many hours to be "replenished"... but also takes a lot of payload to make a dent on it?

 Imagine that every strat "zone" has one of these fuel refineries.

 When the fuel refinery is functioning 100% all the airfields are enabled drop tanks and full fuel load.

 When it is functioning under 100% the DT option is disabled at fields.... and after that its functionality will directly correspond to the airfield fuel load - ie) if the refinery is damaged and functioning at 75% or less, then the airfields in that zone have only 75% fuel.

 But, to damage this fuel refinery by 10%, it will take something like 50,000lbs payload.

 To damage it by 30% it will take about 3.5 Lancaster formations (11~12 Lancasters) worth of payload dropped on the facility.

 ...

 Now, if there was ever a target like that;

* deep inside enemy territory
* immediate impact on the entire front
* dire consequences involved if not protected
* takes enormous amounts of payload to damage, thus small scale fighter jabo missions won't even scratch it
* long term effect, once it is damaged

 
 Then the buff pilots will finally have what they are looking for - a worthy target to go after. They won't ever have to go strike airfield targets again.

 Just like fighter pilots group up and go fight in furballs, all the enthusiastic buff lovers in a country can gather and form big, historic formations, and go after a target that really matters.

 And an important target too, which is worth the effort, not reupping in like 15 minutes....

 If there was a target like that, I'd do a lot more bombing. I'd also love to gather people and form up large formations, and grab some real altitude. That kind of a serious target for buffs, is worth the effort, and it wouldn't feel like a waste of time.

Offline Kev367th

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2005, 08:19:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
The core of the problem as I see it is the same problem we had with fuel porking. One Bomber jock can single-handedly ruin the fun for potentially 50+ people. A single bomber with nothing other than free-time at his disposal can take a base completely down. If done from good altitude he is at very minimal risk of dying. This presents a severe gameplay balance issue. It presents the same issues the single jabo did when he could bring a base to 25% fuel or when a single buff could bring a country's HQ down for 3 hours. These problems were rectified to a large extent. Now this problem needs to be rectified also.

Some solutions for this specific issue:

1) Spread Fighter Hangers out alot more, so they are not killable in one pass.
2) Add more Fighter Hangers to all field sizes.
3) Make Fighter Hangers Harder
4) Make all field strats harder.
5) Make puffy ack far more dangerous/deadly to high altitude, large, slow moving targets and less so to fast, small, low level targets.
6) Do as hub recommended to end the Dive Bombing Heavies, this is rediculous.
Zazen


1) Only field this affects now is the Med sized one, dont know why it wasn't changed when the Small one was.
2) No comment
3) No comment
4) Not harder, but should only be killable by rock and eggs (Ditto CV)
5) NO - make it deadlier to ALL low/high and fast/slow. Add more to a field, and make it harder to kill.
6) F6 bombing only.
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Offline BBinder

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2005, 09:24:14 AM »
heres a possible solution

keep formations

but......

make it so you have to have 2 other people attached to you who have control of the bomb sight/guns in the other bombers in the formation

this will still allow the drones to follow your flight movement and decrease bombing accuracy if some isnt that good at bombing :)

Offline Clifra Jones

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2005, 11:20:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I don't fly bombers, but even I can see the gaping hole in this.

How often do you see 15 bombs up at once?

All I ever see is one formation at a time.  The MA is not nearly that structured.


You obviously are a Nite then, 'cause if you were a Bish you'd have seen this several times over the last few maps. It's becoming a common practice with the Rooks lately.

Offline elc7367b

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2005, 11:38:50 AM »
Hubsonfire wrote

"bringing back the strat system that failed to do anything but have a negative affect on gameplay has nothing to do with historical accuracy. It was just a simple means by which one player can prevent another player from enjoying the game."

I am not a total buff player, I do like to buff though.  I will most likely join a buff mission with lots of bombers in it.  Why?  Because I like to look out and see all those formations flying together.  Being raised in the 60's I was facinated by the movie "twelve o'clock high" and the tv series based on the movie.

So in essence, by suggesting to take away bomber formation capabilities wouldnt you be one player advocating the prevention of another player from enjoying the game?


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Offline Alpo

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2005, 12:15:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Clifra Jones
You obviously are a Nite then, 'cause if you were a Bish you'd have seen this several times over the last few maps. It's becoming a common practice with the Rooks lately.


Well, I've seen it from all countries Clifra and generally enjoy trying to setup for a high speed pass through a mass of bombers... that's after the "holy chit" :eek: factor has worn off.

I know you were present in that swirling mess of bombers and jets (13 formations of B24s and at least eight Me163s and/or 262s) Sunday over Bish HQ.  That's just our standard squad night and we will always have at least eight formations up (as tightly as possible).  So it's always been common for us.

The jets actually did prevent enough bombers from dropping their loads to save HQ from going down on our strike.  It was actually some low 110s (after I watched the film) which apparently cashed in on the soft building.
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Offline DarkHawk

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2005, 01:12:36 PM »
Hi Alpo
What you did not see was that lone B24 formation at 24,000 feet, I put  all of my payload on the HQ and got the HQ destroyed message.  I was late to the show, do to a loss of host connection

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Offline dedalos

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2005, 01:14:22 PM »
You want all these problems to disapear?
You want bombers to go away? (I don't but if you do)


Solution.


Make it so that the FHs cannot be killed.  Lets see if anyone bothers to get in a buff and hit the strategic targets they claim the fly for.  Lets see if anyone ups to hit the Town or the VH.  My guess, you will never see another buff over a field.  Just a few here and there hiting the refineries and the CVs.
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Offline RTSigma

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2005, 02:29:32 PM »
Theres no real use for bombers other than just bombing a field level since there are planes that can take down a town nearly by itself and another that can disable a field.

The strat targets aren't, I haven't noticed anything if and when they are hit. Perhaps its time for actual plane factories near the HQ, say 5, one for spits, 109s, P-51s, 190s, and LAs. Those planes are pretty much the standard in the MA. Having these heavily defended factories will make bombers useful to have since any low-level attack would be suicidal with the amount of guns defending it.

Have radar stations throughout the country, not at the fields.


See what I mean? Give a reason for the bombers to exist other than bombing airfields.



As for the formation of bombers, I'd say get rid of them the way things are in the MA, if the above applied, keep the formations.

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Offline hubsonfire

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2005, 03:49:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
 Want formations, perk em.  Be nice to use my perks on something asides an overpriced jet bomber.


Can't believe I missed this one. Certainly contrary to my ideals, but a valid counterpoint. Unfortunately, barring the implimentation of the other ideas, it would almost have to be prohibitively high, but it's not like the B-29 is ever gonna be added, so an alternate use for perks would be nice.

Chef, don't take my ire at general bomber tactics personally, I'm just getting a bit irked at the affect the mob is having when using them.
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Offline hubsonfire

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2005, 04:07:29 PM »
Muttman, I'm not one guy trying to prevent 50 others from flying. I'm one guy trying to prevent 1 other guy from having the ability to keep 50+ from flying.

God help me, I agree with Zazen and Kweassa on most of their points. Maybe a robust, well thought out strat system and some changes to bombers would solve a lot of the gameplay issues, but there will always be certain guys using lancasters as divebombers, and those types are certainly having the negative impact that they should not be able to. To keep those guys at bay, we'd have to make changes to the field objects as well.

The old strat system sucked, and the new strat and additions to bombers looked good initially. The effects on gameplay are far beyond what I ever imagined upon their release, and I just want that negated.

Appreciate your feedback and suggestions, even though you are divebombing, hording, porking, vulching, furballing, tonka tank-ing dweebs.
mook
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Offline ramzey

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2005, 05:45:39 PM »
simple solutions:
- make bomb relase for level bomber possible only from bombardier position
- for each type of bombers give possibility to add one more drone for 2-7 perks, and give possibility to "buy" up to 3-7? additional drones.Thats can make not 3 but up to 9 bombers in formation.

that can give reason to spend bomber perks not only for ar234 but to fell yourself more safe during bomb run. Hey i can loose 8 planes and still land.
Of course thats give possibilyty of flatting town in one pass, but...nothing more

Offline LePaul

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2005, 08:12:31 PM »
Hub,

Point taken.

I dont see the bombers being a huge issue as of late.  Yes, the ones that use buffs as oversized P-47 JABOs annoy me as well.

What annoys be is the suicide Typhoons that dive in, kill ordinance and troops, then auger.  

For a bomber to knock down all the fighter hangars, as spread out as they are, is something I simply do not see a lot of.

Offline Messiah

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A solution to the bombing crisis
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2005, 03:49:16 AM »
Remove bombers from frontline fields.
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