A solution to the bombing crisis

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Messiah
Remove bombers from frontline fields.

I would think this may be difficult to implement, especially with our sometimes fast moving fronts.
Also what happens when one side gets a sneak capture deep in enemy territory?

[Pong1]

I agree whole heartedly with giving the bombers a worthy stategic  target. It would solve many problems.

As for not seeing multiple bomber formations? If your a Bish then you have been on the reciving end of many 3-6 formation bomber missions, curtesy of myself and other dedicated Rook bombers. To take that experience away would be a mistake, we love looking back and seeing 15 bombers in a massive formation, trying to stay close to ward off fighters. That makes the realism level for us go way up as well as fun.

Maybe fighter guys don't realize how long it takes to get to the proper alt and speed, it is quite an investment for us, only to be shot down right before the target. But I am not complianing, fighting off fighters is part of the realism that makes it fun.

Should we make it easier for the fighter guys to kil us? No! If I go for a HQ raid or a deep startegic target, I will be spending an hour or more getting there. It is a onetime shot for me and I usually get downed before the target, but thats alright, its the game. A fighter can up and attack and land while following me by upping at the next base... 2-3 fighter guys working together to stop bombers is all it takes, just as 2-3 bomber guys are working together. The problem is not that bombers are too powerful or that they have too many planes, it is that nobody wants to try and stop them! It is not very hard to do.

Now as for dive bombing in buffs, I never do it or agree with it. I also agree and understand the fighters guys complianing about us taking out FH and ruining the fun...and I agree that it shouldn't be done unless a group is attempting a base capture...

So any new ideas? How about we make the jabo less effective, then the bombers would be apperciated at fields. But untimatly that idea about making worthwhile strategic targets was the best, then we can all stay out of each others hair.

[stantond]

Soften up ordinanance and the VH at fields.  Bombers near the front can be disabled and the onslaught of GV's protecting a capture can be stopped but the base can be captured with enough people.  

The increased puffy ack lethality is not the answer to the subject question.  However, it is an answer on how to drive people out of the game.



Regards,

Malta

[Sp4de]

We have a bombing "crisis" ?

[LePaul]

Interesting...removing bombers from frontline fields...

See, any bomber guy worth his salt is going to search for a base a good distance away...and with a alt advantage to reduce climb time.

I agree with you, Pong...I dont target Fighter Hangars unless its part of a capture oppritunity.

[Flayed1]

As for 1 guy killing all the hangers at a base, the V bases and the medium air fields are the only bases I can currently kill all FH / VH's in 1 pass. If I have enough ord I can take out FH's on a small field in 2.  and for large fields I would need another guy to go with, I can currently take down 5 FH's on those fields if I can get the correct angle on them but need another guy to finish the last 2. I don't see alot of people taking the time to kill the large fields like this so I think they are fine.  But I will admit the medium fields are kinda easy targets.
   As for the (I'm ruining your fun) statement I never intentionally set out to ruin anyones fun by killing hangers. I usually do this for

 A. trying to keep fighters down for a capture.
  or
 B. tyring to give one of my bases a break for 15 min that is being swamped with nmy planes.

   And I'll say again DIVE BOMBING B24's, LANC's, B17's and B26's is just stupid I'll let the KI67 go because it was used historicly as an explosive laden suicide plane. and it has a rellitivly small bomb load.

  I do like the idea of makeing some kind of target for bombers that actually meant something. The problem with the current factory/city strat we have is more of a gratification problem.
  If you bomb a factory yeah the buildings go boom thats great but it dosn't mean anything unless someone is taking out the corasponding strat on the fields and I rarelly see this happen. and if it did we would then see the whines about people porking all the bases.
  On the other hand if a guy in bombers takes out the FH's on a field he can instantly see the effect.... fighters are disabled for 15 min and that particular pilot feels he/she has done something that affected the game if only for those few minuits.
 I personally would like to do more factory porking with my bombers but most of the time  it rarelly pays to try flying the sometimes long distance in a slow plane to hit a target that doesn't have much effect on the game.
 
   Oh yes on the calibration being to easy I totally agree, I personally liked the old meathod but according to Pyro they had a talk with people that went to the con and I'm guessing some credit has to go to complaints on this forum and decided it needed to be easier.
  So I guess we just have to accept that we are stuck with easy mode.

[elc7367b]

"Appreciate your feedback and suggestions, even though you are divebombing, hording, porking, vulching, furballing, tonka tank-ing dweebs."

Common hub, I hope that wasnt a personal attack, didnt take it that way but still hope it wasnt.

I, to the best of my recollection, have never dive bombed (unless in a dive bomber).  I have been known to go low alt missions.  That mostly due to the fact that my squad prefers to do that more often in bombers.  I prefer the high alt method.  I like big formations.  I like it so much that I may consider moving over to the rooks to join in some of those big missions...but why against the bishops, go for the knights to and I will gladly (maybe) switch sides for a mission.




Muttman
Sick Puppies

[FiLtH]

Bombers need formations or nobody would use them. Isnt that why they were made in the first place?

What I would like to see is the end of salvo options. Just dump all at once at a realistic delay, and harden the bldgs. That way the bombers still have a chance, but the sniping of structures is gone.

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by elc7367b
"Appreciate your feedback and suggestions, even though you are divebombing, hording, porking, vulching, furballing, tonka tank-ing dweebs."

Common hub, I hope that wasnt a personal attack, didnt take it that way but still hope it wasnt.



Muttman
Sick Puppies

If you're playing a cartoon airplane game, or arguing about one, you're a dweeb.

I had composed a long post explaining, in even more painfully boring detail, exactly why I started this, and why I support changes to bombers and field strat, but then the intardnet got borked, and it was lost. My beer grows warmer by the moment, so I'll try again later. @#$*&%

[MOIL]

I said it once, twice, 50 times...............Does the community want a GAME  or a SIM

You can not continue to try and mate the two, it does not work.

[hubsonfire]

It doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other. The game could include many aspects of a simulation, while still being loosely structured and fun for all. Unfortunately, lately, fun for a few means denying fun to the many. They shouldn't have this power.

Regarding forms: In the past, before formations, if I flew in a bomber mission, it was with my squad, or with guys I knew to be competent bombers. Even a single heavy carries enough for a hangar, if it's salvoed correctly and accurately. Formations were added with the idea that bombs would fall randomly, and the added firepower for defensive purposes, and tonnage offensively, would help keep the bombers a viable selection. Then, after the crying, the marginally more difficult calibration routine was dropped for 1 just slightly 1 step in difficulty beyond the green crosshair of the TA. Before formations, we had to drop accurately, communicate, and anyone not in the pipe on their run needed to be looking out for inbound fighters. Nowadays, it's some ******* in a form of lancs 1k off the deck, able to obliterate a field due to several compromises and steps backward from a more balanced setup. Give bombers a relevant target (for instance, make field strat rely on local depots and cities, and have them rely on larger strat factories located farther from the front. At present, the strat factories are useful only for scorepadding, and the field strats are ridiculousy easy targets.


Anyway, this beer's empty, and I'm gonna see if the MA is working or not (the whole bomber issue is somewhat irrelevant without a working arena ). Cheers.

[elc7367b]

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the strategic element of the game is missing.  I havent been here long enough to see just the one plane bomber but was here with the older "more difficult" bombing method.  I didnt seem to have a problem with that method and didnt understand the need for a change.  Well, on second thought, I understand why it was changed but didnt like it.

As far as the existing strats, could someone enlighten me as to their value.  I have been working under the notion that if the strat, whatever it is, is damaged or destroyed then the ability of those items to recover at the field was diminished.  Is this not so?
If it is so, to what amount is the recovery time attributed if the strats are damaged or destroyed?

Muttman
Sick Puppies

[FiLtH]

I dont bother with the major strats as I dont think they matter much. Trouble with strats is...on one hand they hamper the enemy...on the other hand the players dont want to be hampered. Whadda ya do?

[Arcades057]

Granted, I'm relatively new, but I have experience with the old AW bombing sights and long, all-night milkruns to the capital.  I like this bombing setup we have.  It's more "hands-on," not just point and click.

The formations are something fun that add some extra insurance that you'll get home and land your 2.5 perks for obliterating an airfield, town and killing 15 GVs!  

I also REALLY like the idea of big, industrial targets for the strat bombers to target, rather than pumping a few thousand pounds onto a field and "ruining" everyone else's fun.

Also, I've noticed since I began that people like to bomb FHs when a vultch is on or VHs in tanktown and it always had me scratching my head.  "WTF are the Fun Police doing that for?" I would often wonder.  And then it hit me when I porked the VHs in tank town:  Spawn campers!  You spawn 12 times trying to run for the city to enjoy a tank battle and get offed each time by Dw33b1, you get mad... then you grab a B-24 and you get even!  

The porking of the fighter hangers, I don't know; I've only seen new players doing this because they don't know, people trying for a field capture or someone who's drunk dropping them to see the "perty cloud."

[AWkrull]

one thing that I havent heard anyone talk about yet is ....Smoke Pots. When ever a bombing formation was sighted all likely bases and targets popped smoke to obscure the bombing accuracy. As far as Dive bombing buffs, I say only make it so that, as many have already stated, they can only release when level. To the best of my limited knowledge you could not release eggs unless you were level. What I mean by this is that gravity took effect and could/would cause the eggs to jam and not release. Also; I am not so sure that you could salvo eggs in rl anyway so they, the dive bombing buff freaks, would have to release, If it would let them release, all or nothing. Just my two cents worth, but I think it would help if not solve the problem.:aok

PS perk the formations!!! only good pilots would be able to use them.