EP-3 in China

[Mk10 225th]

Wow.  Amazing what a few minutes in front of the TV eating lunch can do for a guy.

For the first time in my life, I found myself listening to Oliver North, and thinking, "Yup, that makes sense."

That's scary.

He said that this was a time for diplomacy, to walk softly and carry a big stick.

He pointed out that the Chinese want to get into the WTO, keep their favored nation trading status, and probably wouldn't be too happy if a lot of Chinese professors got deported back to China.

One interesting twist is that apparently we are getting ready to sell some Aegis-class destroyers to Taiwan.

I'm actually starting to think that the Chinese pilot in the F-8 intentionally rammed our aircraft.

And no...I don't think we were doing anything "wrong."  And further, I really don't agree with the title "Spy Plane Standoff."

I agree with the presumption that if you're in international waters, even if you've got a bunch of really neat electronic surveillance equipment on your aircraft, you're "listening", not "spying."

But, if you're China, and you're thinking about the pending sale of Aegis-class ships to Taiwan, you're probably toejamting in your pants, worrying that whatever data we've been collecting lately about their defenses and radars will be utilized in setting up the electronic warfare suites in the Aegis-class destroyers that we will sell to Taiwan.

So, I don't think it would be a Clancy-esque stretch to think that maybe that Chinese pilot actually had orders to "bump" our aircraft.  Wouldn't surprise me a bit, although we'll never hear the real truth.

It seems as though we'll probably be getting our people back, and that they are healthy and being well-treated.  The airplane is another question, but as 'ol Ollie seemed to think, I think the Chinese have more to lose than us in this deal if they keep acting silly.

But now hearing about the pending sale of Aegis-class ships to Taiwan, this is making a little more sense.  

It would be fun to start a rumour in the intelligence community that Taiwan was now doubling their order, and the US was going to cut 25% from the price.

And while the whole incident makes a little more sense now, the behaviour of the Chinese makes me think they aren't thinking several moves ahead, but are stuck on whether to move their first pawn out two squares, or to bring one their knights out.

God bless cable news networks.

Toad would know more about whether this is feasible or not, but a future possibility for intelligence-gathering aircraft might be to have the electronics done in modules, in an airframe that could actually open bay doors, or a small rear-loading cargo bay type aircraft, and that in cases like this, personnel would be secured in a safe place in the aircraft, and the banks of gear and computers dumped into the ocean or on land, and then explosive charges that are loaded and armed prior to each flight detonated with a remote transmitter as they fell.

Then they could just keep the damn plane with our compliments.  

Mk

[Eagler]

Mk

There's hope for you yet  

Watchin Ollie on Fox News ? Reads Tom Clancy?

I think one of the Chinese propositions will be to give us the crew if we promise not to sell the ships to Taiwan. I like the way they blame us for the whole thing.

Where's John Clark & Rainbow Six when you need them?

Eagler

[Toad]

Mk,

I don't think so.

First of all, like everthing in the military  , there is a "bigger! bigger! more! more!" factor involved. Our mainline Recon platforms keep getting heavier.

Everyone likes the RC-135. It's done a great job and the latest versions are even more super-duper. But the techno guys can always think of one more Recon system to add to make it "perfect". They've pretty much outgrown the B-707-720 to the point that they are looking at the B-767-300ER as a replacement. That's a quantum leap in size.

Coupled to this is the fact the systems themselves are extremely sensitive and delicate.

I don't think rapidly removable "pods" are coming. Early on in Recon, some aircraft, notably C-130's had slide-in compartmentalized stuff but it never became the "standard".

The trend was rather to develop specific aircraft for specific tasks. I really don't see that changing in the multi-engine sized Recon platforms.

Be nice, tho.  

[mrfish]

 

But on the other hand, I'll ask you a question:  Should any reasonable, intelligent person expect a country that has been being unreasonable, and acting like petty warlords for 3,000 years, suddenly do an about-face, and start playing ball?
[/B]

whereas in america, england germany etc, they have been making daisy chains and singing kumbaya for the last 3000 years - nope, no fuedal warlords or imperialism there!

which discovery channel show or pbs special did you get your chinese history education from?

those bastards, they also came up with all those pesky non-violent religions, realistic dimensional rendering in sculpture about 1 thousand years before europe and periods of peace and prosperity that make america's history look like a 'church social'.

you are equating the han majority that rule today with chinese ethnicities that have all but vanished that ruled thousands of years ago - it isnt even the same people - learn your history or better yet just say you hate the chinese and speak your mind - that way its purely emotive and you dont have to distort history or make a double edged sword for yourself to make your point.

[Mk10 225th]

Gee fish, did you just want to start a fight with someone, and throw a dart at the screen to decide who it was going to be?

You must have just read that one part, because throughout my posts, the only point I've really been trying to make, is that we can't expect China to automatically do what we want them to do, even if it is correct and acceptable by international law.

And I don't think talking about the Great Wall and the hundreds of thousands who died building it, or the warlord concept, not to mention the general attitude of the people that the individual is not as important as the whole, means I am distorting history, or hate the Chinese.

To be quite honest, I take great offense to your remarks, and rather suggest that you read through what I've written again, and see if you think I'm some sort of anti-Chinese hate-monger.

There culture is quite different than my own.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And it has been different for thousands of years.  

I guess I'd be totally out of line if I suggested that one might even think of them as isolationists in a sense, right?  Yup, must mean I ain't read no histury books, and I hate the Chinese.

I'm sorry, I didn't think I did anything inflammatory towards the Chinese in my statements, and basically used the "petty warlords for 3,000 years" to make a point using someone else's words that they are in fact different than many other cultures of the world, and we can't expect them to automatically capitulate in this crisis, simply because it would be the right thing to do.

One thing I DO know, is that their culture IS different than many others in the world.  I don't think they have a document on file like the Magna Carta or the Constitution, and they have been a little unfriendly at times througout history, and I guess the latest little ditty that's happening now, and that incident with the tank and the student in the Square threw me off a little bit as far as them being "reasonable" right now.

I won't even get into the Taiwan and Tibetan thing.  

The REAL kicker in this whole thing is that except for a horrible blunder after the Second World War, they would be our friends right now, instead of forcing down our airplanes, and holding our service people hostage.

Hell, Mao helped WWII aviators in distress.  His enemy was our enemy, the Japanese.  

If it wasn't for some pig-headed people in power after the war in OUR country, they'd be our ally right now, and not someone we chest-butt on the playground.

Oh toejam, not to mention, we wouldn't have had so much trouble in Korea.

But back to what I posted about.  You don't know me, you don't know my politics, you don't know how I feel, you don't know my upbringing, and you sure as hell don't know how to converse on a UBB.

And if you expect me to believe that the entire history of China has been some sort of dreamy, Utopian Shangri-La, I've got some bridges in my inventory I've been needing to sell, and I can make you a GREAT deal!

I've worked with Chinese people in the business world, and have had nothing but pleasurable occurences with them.  On the other hand, other than visiting relatives every couple years, it is kind of disconcerting that they don't seem real excited about going back to live there, as opposed to staying here, and raising their families.  <raises one eyebrow>

And hell no, I don't think we've all been sitting around in other parts of the world playing patty-cake for the last 3,000 years.

But, I don't think it takes a Rhodes scholar to see that China hasn't been that interested in playing ball with ANYONE in the rest of the world for the better part of this century, and didn't really seem too smitten with the Russians.

So yes, I guess I'm not too excited about how things have gone in the last hundred plus years, and yes, I know that they had periods of peace and prosperity.  But often times those periods of peace and properity were enjoyed at the cost of others.

If you just caught that one part of my posts, and thought for a moment I'm some sort of dim-witted racist amazinhunk, then I understand.  I'd urge you to read ALL of my posts, and see if you didn't come away thinking that maybe I was simply trying to say you can't take one culture, and force them through a cookie press so they look and think like YOU do.

On the other hand, if you're just cruising around looking for a fight, you've come to the right place.

Mk