"Jap", political correctness, and my poor attitude

[streakeagle]

I don't find "Jap" any more of a slur than "Yank", "Brit", "Nip", "Kraut", or "Jerry". In the context of WWII even "NAZI" isn't a slur, it is an accurate description of the opposition.

I am already annoyed by the fact that aircraft model kits (and flight sims) are leaving off the swastikas on German aircraft markings. People who had just been through WWII and suffered NAZI attrocities never complained about the markings of model kits, why are we so concerned now?

What is so "correct" about revisionist history where anything we find offensive gets edited out? If historical terms such as "Jap" and "NAZI" and aircraft historically marked with swastikas are so offensive, what are we doing playing a game based on killing?

The models hanging from my ceiling are marked as correctly as my skills permit. If you compare a photo of the plane in question to my model, they are nearly identical except for the fingerprints and brushmarks from a sloppy paint job and any errors caused by a faulty decal set. Of my 8 WWII Luftwaffe aircraft, 4 have swastikas. I did not omit them from the other aicraft, they simply were not present on those units.

How come there is no "politically correct" reaction to the red star of the Soviet Union? Stalin and friends tortured and killed as many people for no good reason. Yet I see no pleas to revise the markings of Soviet aircraft so they don't offend anyone who might have been persecuted by the Soviets.

To me, "political correctness" is merely the "politically correct" term for "good-hearted" censorship. Whether I like what someone else says or not, I don't believe in censorship in any way shape or form. I believe in using honest direct language as opposed to trying to come up with an alternative vocabulary that won't offend anyone. In the United States, the Constitution does not guarantee anyone's right to not be offended by what someone else says or does, but it sure as hell guarantees their freedom of speech. Too many people in the country seem to have forgotten that.

While I am ranting and raving on this subject, I would like to mention a story I heard on the news and my opinion about it. After September 11, a U.S. school prohibited displaying the American flag because some of the international students there might find our patriotism offensive.   Should we ban displays of flags or anything marked red, white, and blue on the 4th of July?

If you are not from this country and find our flag or its colors offensive, feel free to say so, feel free to buy one of your own and burn it for the news cameras, or better yet, feel free to leave. If you are from this country and you are worried that our flag might offend visitors, feel free to join those who are offended in any of the above activities, but don't you dare prohibit other Americans from showing pride in their country in public.

[Ripsnort]

We had a thread on this awhile back.  Its my opinion that if someone finds the comment offensive, then I just show the basic curtesy(sp?) of not using the shortened version.  We DO have some in the game that do find it alittle offensive, so I just type "Japans" instead of "Japs".

Its simple, if someone finds it offensive, don't use it.  This way we all get along.  Be warned that I *might* find the word "Redneck" offensive *some day*, but today, you can call me a redneck if you'd like  

[Animal]

dirty redneck    
you can call me any slang of my nationality or race as long as its not intended in an offensive tone.
i think its not the words that matter, but the intention that they are used.

for example, if i say: "jap pilots are great fighters!" i think its ok, but saying "dirty jap pilots cheat the game" then its another matter.

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Animal ]

[streakeagle]

I think in all my rambling, I failed to convey my point: I don't think people in general (including those whose vocabulary and/or opinion offends me) should have to tailor their words such that it doesn't offend anybody.

Of course people have the right to choose to rephrase their words to minimize offense to others, but I don't think "politically correct people" have a right to enforce their views on others who choose not to be.

I happen to have met some WWII veterans that were greatly offended by the fact that we even do business with Japan (on a level comparable to the way that some people react to swastikas). One WWII submarine veteran in particular used to stand on our pier and curse at every Japanese flagged cargo vessel that pulled into San Diego. He would get angry at anyone who showed any kind of respect to the Japanese. Of course he lost many friends while fighting them in WWII. I can assure you that he is as hurt and angered by seeing a Japanese flag in a U.S. port as a Jew would be seeing a flaming Nazi swastika burning in their yard. But no one is worried about offending him.

I personally try to show respect to most people, but I also tend to speak my mind using the phrases that are common to my dialect (being born and raised in Tampa, FL and having served 8 years in the Navy). If some people are offended by my vernacular, so be it. Not being a politician and not seeking popular votes, I feel no need to carefully edit my thoughts before expressing them. Nor would I ever hold it against anybody else for doing the same whether they are a "Yankee", a "redneck", a "hippie", or even a radical anti-American Muslim.

Of course, expressing an opinion and living your own life the way you choose is one thing. Acting on those opinions and forcing others to comply with them is a whole different ball-game. And that is my complaint about the "PC" police. They expect others to express their opinions in a way that meets their arbitrary standards.

P.S. I agree with Animal wholeheartedly: intent is everything.

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: streakeagle ]

[J_A_B]

I thought "nips" was the derogatory slang term for the Japanese, and "japs" was just a shortened version.

J_A_B

[Ripsnort]

Nip is/was short for Nipponese.  Same as Jap was for Japanese.  "Amer" didn't work for "American" so we got tagged with "Yanks"  

[Curval]

Political correctness has done little to address racism and in fact has served to increase animosity between races.  In my opinion we need to root out the "cause" of racism rather than "pretty it up" with a bunch of WORDS.

I fly a Japanese plane for the most part...you wanna call me a Jap...fine...wanna call me a Nip...that is fine too...

"Sticks and Stones will break my bones...but names will NEVER hurt me"  It was apt when I was a kid...it is apt today.

[Boroda]

B]How come there is no "politically correct" reaction to the red star of the Soviet Union? Stalin and friends tortured and killed as many people for no good reason. Yet I see no pleas to revise the markings of Soviet aircraft so they don't offend anyone who might have been persecuted by the Soviets.[/B]

How come there is no "politically correct" reaction to the white star of the United States? Americans bombed and killed so many people in Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam and Yugoslavia that many people can find USAF insignia offencive too.

But there is one big difference between swastika and both red and white stars. Swastika is a symbol of nazism. And nazism was foung guilty in crimes against humanity by Nuremberg international court. Japanese militarism was under trial in Tokyo international court, but the Red Sun isn't a symbol of am inhuman ideology like nazism. At least it wasn't declared so by an interntional court.

As for swastikas on scaled models or in games - I personaly think that there is a big difference between public display of swastika and swastika used to restore historical events. Otherwise we'll have to erase it from all movies and documental photos. Russian laws don't prohibit swastikas in games, IL-2 Russian version has all swastikas in place, but in Germany it is impossible. AH is an international game with no special versions of FE, so if swastika will appear here this gam will и prohibited in Germany.

If you are not from this country and find our flag or its colors offensive, feel free to say so, feel free to buy one of your own and burn it for the news cameras, or better yet, feel free to leave. If you are from this country and you are worried that our flag might offend visitors, feel free to join those who are offended in any of the above activities, but don't you dare prohibit other Americans from showing pride in their country in public.

Well said. It's your country and you are proud of it. What a nonsence - to prohibit displaying your own national flag!

[mietla]

Originally posted by Boroda:
[QB]
... but the Red Sun isn't a symbol of am inhuman ideology like nazism.

Surely you are jesting my dear Boroda.

[Tac]

I dunno.. "Nips" sounds worse.  

[miko2d]

Originally posted by streakeagle:
I think in all my rambling, I failed to convey my point: I don't think people in general should have to tailor their words such that it doesn't offend anybody.

I cannot find a fault with your logic but besides logic there are other things in life like customs, attitudes and respect. There are quite a lot of things that we can legally do that many other people would find offencive.
 There is no way to logically justify why hammer and sickle is not treated equally with swastika. It was a surprise to me that people would find "Jap" but not "Brit" offencive. I just took their word for it and stopped using that term - out of respect for their feelings. Of course I would still use the term if I did not respect people here but then I would not care to post here at all.

 There are also some specific legal issues with swastika being outlawed in Germany that poses a problem for any multi-national company.

 As for "enforcing PC views", only Hitech can do it here - it's his company and his board.

 miko

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]

[Krusher]

Originally posted by Tac:
I dunno.. "Nips" sounds worse.    

quit looking at my nipples !!!!!

[Tac]

see what I mean?  

[Hangtime]

NIP NIP NIP

JAP JAP JAP

KRAUT KRAUT KRAUT

CANUCK CANUCK CANUCK

FROG FROG FROG

GOOK GOOK GOOK

CHINK CHINK CHINK

LIMEY LIMEY LIMEY

So, sue me.
 

[easymo]

I dont know, pinko sounds pretty accurate for a Russian like baroda.