Author Topic: al Qaeda's seven "phases"  (Read 627 times)

Offline FiLtH

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al Qaeda's seven "phases"
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2005, 10:52:56 PM »
I was looking for Phase 8: Gets off floor and milks the goat

~AoM~

Offline Pei

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al Qaeda's seven "phases"
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2005, 12:50:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
Interesting article; and plausable in intent.

One thing it skates over a bit however; is the image of Islam as a homogeneous faith; that there is only "one" Islam.


For example; I'd imagine the Whabist Saudi's would be amongst the unbelievers according Al Quaada; who I believe are Shi-'ite  (aren't they?). Similarly most of Indonesia; the biggest muslim state of them all is also of a different sect.



Your main point is true: there is no central Islamic power structure (histroically it was the Caliphate in the first few centuries but Islam divided pretty quickly into different sub groups).

Al Queda is a Sunni organisation, Wahabism is a Sunni sect/doctrine that is very close to Al Queda. Sunni/Shi'a are both labels more like "Protestant" in Christianity: i.e. there are many branches and groups within each that are not necessarily compatible or friendly.

Indonesia is Sunni by a vast majority: Sunnism is the largest of the main divisions in Islam.

IIRC Only Iran and (by a much lesser extent) Iraq are majority Shi'a states. Pakistan and Syria also have significant Shi'a minorities.

It's important to remember that while the press and the various coalition governments refer to Shi'as, Sunnis and Kurds as the major divisions in Iraq it's not quite that simple. The Shi'as of the South and the Sunnis of the centre are both ethnic Arab groups, the Kurds are a different ethnic group that are actually mostly Sunni as well. So the divisions between centre and south are religous, but the divisions between centre and north are ethnic (so therefore the divisions between north and south are both ethnic and religious: Sunni Kurds vs Shi'a Arabs).

Extremist Sunnis regard Shi'as as apostates (and the reverse is true for extremist Shi'as regarding Sunnis).

Offline Krusher

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al Qaeda's seven "phases"
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2005, 11:57:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker

Actualy; I think two things the West should be adressing are getting the Koran translated into as many tongues as possible; on the grounds that translating the Bible from Latin went a big way to loosening the Roman grip on Christianity

And..

Publicaly debating Bin Laden's political (not religious) agenda. Show people en masse what projected lifestyle Bin Ladin offers. The wish for Freedom is often nothing more than enlightened self interest. This, for instance, is where the IRA is failing right now. Their politics suck; and now that a vote for them means they might actualy get a say in Northern Ireland's finances is what's causing the most resistance to support.

But let's throw a curve ball here...

The West is not alone. Russia's feeling the terrorist threat acutely. If Bush could get Putin realy involved; seriously onboard; it'd be amazing how quick the UN and other socialist inspired institutions would jump on the band wagon; and Bush would indeed, go down in history as a Statesman, at last.



Agreed on your two points.  

While I would love to see the US and Russia become stronger allies, I am pretty sure we will be waiting a very long time before Russia and the US see eye to eye on global politics/terrorism. I hope I am wrong, but some of the Russian posters (here) give me the impression that the general public is not interested. And like here in the states if the people don't want it the politicians wont push it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 12:01:57 PM by Krusher »

Offline Seagoon

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al Qaeda's seven "phases"
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2005, 01:04:51 PM »
Hi Guys,

During the twentieth century with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and then the end of Colonialism, most of the Middle-Eastern and historically Islamic Asian nations (Pakistan and Indonesia in particular) went through an Islamic revival that is still ongoing. This applies to both Shia and Sunni Islam, with the strength of the Shia revival being seen, for instance, in the Islamic revolution of 1979 that overthrew the Shah and established Iran as a specifically Shi'ite Islamic state. While there are indeed various brands of this revivalist fervor, all of them are essentially committed to achieving the same objectives commanded in the Quran and spelled out by pan-Islamic groups like the Muslim Brotherhood (Al-Ikhwan). Here for instance, is the overall plan of the Muslim brotherhood, which could easily be applied to almost every major Islamist organization on earth (indeed many have simply adopted this one) which is available online at http://www.ummah.org.uk/ikhwan/:

"1- Building the Muslim individual: brother or sister with a strong body, high manners, cultured thought, ability to earn, strong faith, correct worship, conscious of time, of benefit to others, organized, and self-struggling character  
2- Building the Muslim family: choosing a good wife (husband), educating children Islamicaly, and inviting other families.
3- Building the Muslim society (through building individuals and families) and addressing the problems of the society realistically.
4- Building the Muslim state.
5- Building the Khilafa (basically a shape of unity between the Islamic states).
6- Mastering the world with Islam."


Items 4 through 6 essentially work out this way: first the nations of the Dar-Al-Islam are purged of non-Islamic elements and an Islamic revolution brings in a new government founded on Sharia. This for instance was the objective of the Taliban, an Islamic movement that transcended the historic tribalism of the area. Then once the nations of the Dar-Al-Islam have become thoroughly Islamic theocracies, they are banded together to form the Khalifa and theoretically unified under one ruler who inherits the mantle of the prophet, this is "the Caliph." Then under his leadership the new unified Ummah completes the Jihad by subduing the world under Islam (stage 6). This is essentially the same plan mapped out in the Quran and initiated by the prophet himself, so arguing against it is going to be fruitless.

So how does one dismantle the above plan assuming of course that no matter what our differences are we are all agreed that step 6 is not something we wish to see realized?

Well, to date, Western foriegn policy has been aimed at preventing the accomplishment of stage 4 by encouraging, supporting, defending and when necessary, establishing governments sympathetic to the West and her ideals. This methodology however is proving unsustainable in the long term, and is totally ineffective when it comes to preventing direct action by terror-cells bent on moving on to step 6 before 4 and 5 are fully achieved (this is actually an ongoing argument amongst Islamic direct action groups - work towards 4,5,6 all at once or take each step one at a time.)

I would argue that the place to concentrate is actually steps 1-3. Work to prevent the ideology from taking hold and encourage the development of a different one entirely.  This, however, the west is increasingly unwilling to do for obvious reasons, even the idea of saying we can't co-exist with consistent Islam even when they themselves say the same thing is abhorent to us. In our current worldview thinking somehow even militant fascists and militant communists should be able to live together side by side in peace and harmony and love and granola.

Simply put, the Muslim brotherhood and the Pan-Islamic vision is for Muslims only, so even if you are appalled at the idea of Christian missions, think of it this way - every Muslim who becomes a Tibetan Buddhist is one less potential recruit for Al-Qaeda and one more individual whose throat they are duty-bound to slit. But if everyone becomes a Kufr (apostate) in their society, then no one is left to slit throats. Our concentration needs to be on changing the hearts and minds of the Umma and discouraging the spread of the ideology in Europe. Merely advancing "liberal" Islam won't work in the long run, if only because it has no traction amongst the common people, and because even the children of the liberal intelligentsia end up actually reading the Quran and discovering, "Hey, Mom and Dad haven't really been practicing what the prophet taught" and then going off and to learn what Islam really teaches. It isn't that Al-Zarqawi or Khamenei don't understand Islam (incidentally the disagreement between Shia and Sunni is more historical/hierarchial rather than being entirely theological), their understanding of it is actually quite developed and in their own right they are quite adept exegetes and communicators, they understand the ideology very well, but we in the West simply cannot co-exist with their implementation of it.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams