Author Topic: P40's next! (Read 1815 times)

Raptor · « **Reply #45 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:35:56 PM »

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Originally posted by Edbert
The best K/D ratio of the entire war, all sides all theaters was the F6F, only elcipsed by the F15 which has never suffered a combat loss.

P38 had the best K/D ratio IIRC.

Ted, no offense but the P40 by no means is the best aircraft of WW2. During early years in the war it was a good aircraft, but by 1943 it was pretty much obsolete. You claim a good P40 pilot could kill any other plane, true. But put a good P40 pilot up against a ki84 (seems to be the plane we are comparing it to in this thread) pilot of equal skill, the P40 will lose.
You have started this arguement before and said P40 could out turn a zero, I challenged you to a duel and you still have not come through with it (though you said you would)

Grits · « **Reply #46 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:50:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Raptor01
P38 had the best K/D ratio IIRC.

The F6F's kill ratio of 19:1 was the best of all US aircraft.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #47 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:55:15 PM »

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Originally posted by Raptor01
P38 had the best K/D ratio IIRC.

Best kill ratio among USAAF planes. Overall I think it was the Hellcat.

ack-ack

Raptor · « **Reply #48 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:07:57 PM »

I thought I saw (on several occasions) P38 had better K/D ratio than F6F.

Grits · « **Reply #49 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:22:54 PM »

Hellcat was 19:1, F4U was 11:1 and P-38 was 10:1 donno about any others.

Edbert1 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:28:22 PM »

The F6F saw a lot of action during the Marianas campaign, which was widely nicknamed a "turkey shoot". Also I am sure that being on anti-kamikaze duty skewed the stats somewhat. Rather easy to kill an already obsolete enemy aircraft which was laden with explosives and flown by a pilot with little to no stick time.

While the Brewster saw success in the hands of the Finns beyond any reason, and due to their skills and tenacity I'd have to question that it beat the 19:1 ratio. Would love to see evidence to the contrary if any of you can find it.

Ted, I am only of average skill. You take the P40 and I'll take the Ki84 and if you get me more than one out of ten I'd be amazed. It is simply not a fair fight, very few pre-42 planes could beat the late '44 planes.

Grits · « **Reply #51 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:55:14 PM »

I did a Google for "B-239 kill ratio" and got a couple sites, one lists the Brewster as 496 kills and 19 losses for a 26:1 kill ratio. Even if that is true, much as you noted for the Hellcat, circumstances led to a bit of a statistical outlier in those numbers IMO.

Xjazz · « **Reply #52 on:** August 18, 2005, 06:06:37 PM »

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Originally posted by Grits
I did a Google for "B-239 kill ratio" and got a couple sites, one lists the Brewster as 496 kills and 19 losses for a 26:1 kill ratio. Even if that is true, much as you noted for the Hellcat, circumstances led to a bit of a statistical outlier in those numbers IMO.

There is a SEARCH button in AH board too...

Ted Strykker · « **Reply #53 on:** August 18, 2005, 07:03:41 PM »

Oh,now you wanna be friendly about having a duel raptor01.

Where was this friendlyness when you came into Blav's room demanding this and demanding that?

Raptor · « **Reply #54 on:** August 18, 2005, 07:33:25 PM »

here we go again

You stated anytime anywhere you would gladly beat me, I wanna see it cause though I doubt you will. I've called you out and you don't fight, so I concluded you're all talk. I've asked again later but you're too tired to fly or something like that. Lets not turn this into a flame fest that will cause the thread to be closed... IF you do decided to do what you said you would feel free to PM me and we can arrange a duel.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #55 on:** August 18, 2005, 07:54:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Edbert

While the Brewster saw success in the hands of the Finns beyond any reason, and due to their skills and tenacity I'd have to question that it beat the 19:1 ratio. Would love to see evidence to the contrary if any of you can find it.

In a sense, you can explain it with the Turkey Shoot example you used with the Hellcats. The Finns had a professional, well trained air force. IIRC, they also studied thoroughly the lessons the Germans and the Soviets learned in the Spanish Civil War and applied that to their training. The Soviets on the other hand, while having a large air force had pretty much forgotten the lessons learned in the Spanish Civil War and had a lot of capable pilots and commanders purged due to Stalin's house cleaning. So while the Soviets might have fought with tenacity and bravery, they were pretty much like the majority of the Japanese pilots that took part in the Marianna's Turkey Shoot. They were inexperienced and not well trained and I think thier main fighter was the I-16 which I believe the Brewster Buffalo outclassed.

Would the outcome have been the same if Stalin didn't purge his air force of his experienced commanders and pilots?

ack-ack

Edbert1 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 18, 2005, 10:25:31 PM »

Could be since the Soviet pilots really were fodder much like their soldiers. I read somewhere that the Luftwaffe had a 8+ to 1 K/D versus the VVS and about a 1 to 1 against USAAF/RAF.

Take it with a grain of salt but some of the posters in this thread seem to know their stuff...
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/about448-0-asc-0.html

Slash27 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 18, 2005, 10:41:37 PM »

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Originally posted by Edbert
Could be since the Soviet pilots really were fodder much like their soldiers. I read somewhere that the Luftwaffe had a 8+ to 1 K/D versus the VVS and about a 1 to 1 against USAAF/RAF.

Take it with a grain of salt but some of the posters in this thread seem to know their stuff...
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/about448-0-asc-0.html

Dont let Boroda hear you say that:D

Edbert1 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 18, 2005, 10:58:41 PM »

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Originally posted by Slash27
Dont let Boroda hear you say that:D

Point taken...allow me to specify that they were TREATED as fodder by their command...I did not mean to imply that they were not capable as individuals...in fact many accounts I've read from German infantrymen said that the "Ivans" were fearsome adversaries.

Ted Strykker · « **Reply #59 on:** August 18, 2005, 11:39:54 PM »

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in fact many accounts I've read from German infantrymen said that the "Ivans" were fearsome adversaries.

Just ask all the german women that were raped over and over by the advancing soilders of the russian front.