Author Topic: Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!  (Read 620 times)

Offline beet1e

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2005, 05:56:25 AM »
ROFL.

Saburo - I couldn't disappoint you, so...
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Firearms are legal and they are a constitutional right and forcing someone to disarm is going way beyond a companies rights.
I read the link, and it says that the company wants to stop people leaving guns in cars on the company's lots. It's their land, their property, and it seems reasonable that they can stipulate how that land is used.

So Lazs, don't get your knickers in a knot over this. I don't hear anyone squealing about "being disarmed" when they're not allowed to take a gun (or even a pen knife) on a passenger air service. Why should the Conoco parking lot be any different?

But I do have a question: WHY has the company taken this decision? Don't they know that more guns = less crime? Tsk-tsk Lazs, you really should try to promulgate your message more forcefully!

Offline lazs2

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2005, 10:02:14 AM »
sandie and beet... I say that it is the right of the company to ask that yoiu not bring fireams to work on your person... It is a whole new matter to have them locked in the trunk of your car.  even tho the parking lot is the companies.,.. the car is private property.

the insurance thing is a scam.  you could park ten feet over and be legal and beyond the jurisdiction of the company and... if danger was the problem then there would be no difference.

Where I work we were told no firearms in our cars no matter what while we were working.  even on the public streets parked..  they lost that one.  

What is going on is that it is a matter of convienience for people... they take the guns to the range during hunting season and don't want to drive what might be hours out of the way simply because of a company policy and... if it is legal for them to have a gun in their possesion... the company is effectively disarming them going to and from work.

I would love to see the NRA sponsor some lawsuits against cities and states and now companies who had gun bans or restrictions..

The suit would be.. If someone who had or wanted a gun was denied that gun and was injured by a criminal and it could be proven that he wouldn't have been if he had been armed.... get the idea?  pain and suffering and civil rights and all that crap the left uses....

lazs

Offline beet1e

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2005, 12:14:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
What is going on is that it is a matter of convienience for people... they take the guns to the range during hunting season and don't want to drive what might be hours out of the way simply because of a company policy and... if it is legal for them to have a gun in their possesion... the company is effectively disarming them going to and from work.
Perhaps the company takes the view that if people want to carry guns in their cars, they can still drive to work, but may not park on the company's property once they get there. I wouldn't have thought the company stipulates parking in a particular parking lot (theirs) as a condition of employment.

Offline bustr

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2005, 01:52:01 PM »
Beet,

You are splitting hairs about the private property.

In most states in the U.S. private property is constantly being argued in these terms due to police stops and searches of vehicals. The court in Oklahoma will have to decide the issue of a car as private property vs. a company demanding the greater right to dictate to it's employees what they can or cannot store in thier private property.

In Oklahoma firearms are legal tools. The interior of the employees cars are thier private property. It may even be private at the level of the castel doctrine. In the end, the private company may have to stop providing parking on their property for everyone. After all there becomes an opening for a class action suit of discrimination if they say car owners who store one class of legal tool in their car, cannot park on company property. But all other citizens can.

After all, in the U.S., because of our legal system, to discriminate against a group of law abiding citizens by a specific item or charateristic that is constiutionaly protected, can be argued legaly as discrimination against a civil right.

The ability to protect ones life is the most fundimental of all civil rights. Remember, a corporation is not a citizen with civil rights. One thing american corporations really don't like getting into court over is civil rights. When they loose, all american corporations loose with them. Class action suits sprout out of the walls.......................

This will drag on, especially since Oklahoma is a state that strongly beleives in the 2nd amendment and the fundimental right of protecting ones life and property.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline beet1e

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2005, 03:07:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
Beet,

You are splitting hairs about the private property.  
Bustr

What I said was quite simple. Conoco is entitled to stipulate conditions for how its land is used. If the gun carrying employees want to leave their guns in the vehicle, they can do it - provided they don't park on Conoco property. At least that's how I read it. As a matter of fact, I don't think that being granted a parking space in the parking lot of one's employer is mentioned in the US constitution as a constitutional right, so Conoco doesn't have to grant its employees a parking space at all, as well as being free to stipulate the T&C when it does.

As to WHY they did it - maybe they feel that their parking lot(s) is/are in a high risk location, and don't want to become implicated in a negligence suit.

Offline lazs2

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2005, 03:21:42 PM »
I guess they have the right to say no guns on their property but do they have the right to search your car?

As for me... I will be glad to boycott their product and I will call/email/write them as to why I am.

lazs
« Last Edit: August 18, 2005, 03:24:06 PM by lazs2 »

Offline Sandman

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2005, 03:24:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I guess they have the right to say no guns on their property but do they have the right to search your car?

lazs


The military does it all the time and not just to service members, but anyone that enters or exits the base.
sand

Offline lazs2

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2005, 03:40:43 PM »
The police do it all the time too... that is not wallmart searching your car now is it?

So why can't they do that in the safeway parking lot?  you are in their lot buying groceries... do they have the right to search your car for guns?

lazs

Offline Sandman

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2005, 03:49:50 PM »
I'm not sure they can't if they choose to, but it would be a really bad business decision.
sand

Offline Jackal1

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2005, 05:43:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I'm not sure they can't if they choose to, but it would be a really bad business decision.



Bingo!
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline WindX

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2005, 06:10:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
sandie and beet... I say that it is the right of the company to ask that yoiu not bring fireams to work on your person... It is a whole new matter to have them locked in the trunk of your car.  even tho the parking lot is the companies.,.. the car is private property.


lazs


I couldnt agree more!  :aok

Offline beet1e

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2005, 06:11:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I guess they have the right to say no guns on their property but do they have the right to search your car?
I suppose it depends on the justification for the search, and whether the grounds for "unusual" requests as a condition for entering the parking lot can be deemed reasonable. Obviously, if the company said that female drivers had to flash their b**bs as a condition of entering the parking lot, this would be deemed unreasonable! But a vehicle search as a security precaution does not seem unreasonable in this day and age, and Conoco would not even have to declare that it was guns they were looking for.

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2005, 11:06:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/2/94436.shtml

Maybe it's just me, but I think the NRA is out of line.

I don't see it has being any different than HTC's position that we have no 1st Amendment right to free speech here on this BBS.


Thoughts?


My shooting buddy (who introduced me to the sport) was involved in a shootout while working at a gas station in 1980.  The perp, popped three rounds through the bottom of the BR glass (tray), one rounds grazed the side of his temple, leaving a permanent scar.  My buddy drew the Nickel Plated Model 15, the perp was DOA.  When the cops showed up my buddy was so shaken up, he was still squeezing the trigger repeatedly.  

I know my buddy would agree with this boycott, having first hand "experience" of this type of event.

Karaya
FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline Lazerus

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2005, 01:29:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
It's their land, their property, and it seems reasonable that they can stipulate how that land is used.


I own a company. It is my land. I refuse to hire people based on their racial background.

Would you defend my right to dictate who I hire based on their race?

Two different rights granted by the Constitution of my country. The possesion of a firearm in their building is one thing. That firearm locked in your car is another.

I appreciate the fact that you are against gun ownership by the senseless masses, but you are not bound by the Constitution of the United States, as we are. Other wrongs (illegal searches, etc.) do not make this wrong OK.

Offline beet1e

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Conoco, NRA, Oklahoma... oh... GUNS!
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2005, 02:16:04 AM »
Lazerus,

I assume your employment laws are along the lines of ours here - since about 1965, it has been illegal to discriminate against a job applicant on the grounds of race. I believe it's gone further than that in the US, with discrimination on the basis of gender and age also being unlawful.

But none of this has anything to do with the topic being discussed.
Quote
Originally posted by Lazerus
Two different rights granted by the Constitution of my country. The possesion of a firearm in their building is one thing. That firearm locked in your car is another.
...and as I said before, I may not have read the US Constitution, but I'll bet you $10 that there's nothing in it which grants an employee the constitutional right to a parking space on his employer's property. That parking space is a privilege, not a right. And as a privilege, the owners of the land have the right to stipulate the terms and conditions under which that privilege will be granted. Don't like it? Park somewhere else.
Quote
against gun ownership by the senseless masses
Indeed. Refer to Masherbrum's story. ^ I am of course referring to the perp, not Masherbrum's buddy.